Dr. Soook Kim and Mr. Dong Kim Dual Interview

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Dr. Soook Kim and Mr. Dong Kim Transcript(final).pdf

Dublin Core

Title

Dr. Soook Kim and Mr. Dong Kim Dual Interview

Description

Dr. Soook Kim and Mr. Dong Kim Dual Interview with Joy Kim and Jennifer Keil.

Oral History Item Type Metadata

Duration

02:17:31 minutes

Transcription

Korean Oral History Transcript

 

Narrator

Dr. Soook Kim and Mr. Dong Kim

Interviewer

Jennifer L. Keil and Joy Kim

Transcription

Su In Lee and Irene Park (Korean)

Jennifer L. Keil and Cindy Keil (English)

 

●     JK: Joy Kim                  (Introduction Question in Korean)

●     JLK: Jennifer L. Keil   (Additional English Questions)

●     SK: Dr. Soook Kim    (Response in Korean)

●     DK: Dong Kim             (Response in English)

Videographer

Jennifer Keil

Project

The Legacy of Korean Independence Pioneer Descendants

Funded by

Consulate General of the Republic of Korea in Los Angeles

Date

April 18, 2019

Location

Korean National Association (KNA)

Length

02:07:31 minutes

Audio

https://koreanpioneers.omeka.net/items/show/14

Project Link

https://koreanpioneers.omeka.net/

 

 

Abstract

A dual interview with pioneer descendants of the Korean liberation movement. Dr. Soook Kim is a relative of Kimm Kiusic and Mr. Dong Kim is a relative of Song Hurn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

English Transcription

00:00:06

JLK:    This is for the USC Korean Descent Oral History Project.

00:00:10

JK:       This is the Korean Descent Oral History Project.

00:00:19

JLK:    Our first question for you is, “Where were you born?”

00:00:24

JK:      We will first begin with a question. “Where were you born?”

00:00:29

SK:     My grandpa’s childhood?

00:00:31

JK:     You.

00:00:32

SK:     My childhood?

00:00:33

JK:     Yes. Yes.

00:00:35

SK:      You start first.

00:00:37

DK:      Yes?

00:00:37

SK:      You start first.

00:00:39

DK:      Yes. I was born in Seoul, Korea.

 

00:00:45

JK:      In Seoul.

00:00:46

JLK:    In Seoul. Would you share about your upbringing?

00:00:52

DK:     Pardon me?

00:00:53

JLK:    Would you please share about your upbringing?

00:00:56

DK:     What do you…?

00:00:56

JLK:    Your childhood?

00:00:56

JK:      Ahh!

00:00:57

DK:     Oh!

00:00:58

JK:      Can you share your childhood in a summarized version?

00:01:02

DK:     Well, I [grew] up in Korea. All the way up to undergraduate school. And [at the]

same time I finished my military duty. And then I came to the United States in

  1. And I pursued [my] education in Washington State [University]. Thereafter, I got into my own business.

00:01:34

JK:      So, are we going to take turns?

00:01:36

JLK:    Okay. Yes, please.

00:01:37

JK:      Okay, teacher Kim.

00:01:39

SK:      I was born in Shanghai, China.

00:01:45

JK:      I was born in Shanghai.

00:01:46

JLK:    Okay.

00:01:47

SK:      I was born in 1943.

00:01:50

JK:      In ’43, 1943.

00:01:51

SK:      When Korea became liberated, in 1945, my grandfather came to Korea first. And

the rest of my family moved back one or two months after.

00:02:04

JK:      So….

00:02:04

SK:      After we came back.

00:02:06

JK:      So, they went back to Korea after the liberation. And her grandfather went to

Korea first and then the family followed.

00:02:16

JLK:    Hmm. Okay. What year would that be?

00:02:21

JK:      1945.

00:02:23

JLK:    ’45. Okay. Would she share a little bit about her childhood?

00:02:28

JK:      And so, can you explain your childhood, how you grew up?

00:02:35

SK:      Up until 6/25 (Korean War), my grandfather was continuously suffering

(postwar)…. Korea was living a steady life then.

00:02:47

JK:      You are talking about it economically?

00:02:50

SK:      Economically, too…he always lived his life being chased after in China.

00:02:54

JK:      Ah, compared to the Japanese Imperialism time.

00:02:55

SK:      Living in peace, not being chased after by someone.

00:02:58

JK:      Okay.

00:02:59

SK:      ....Was his first time. I’m going off track, but before

Korea became South and North, my grandfather lived in 삼청장

(Sam-cheong-Jang). I am currently asking to make 삼청장 (Sam-cheong-Jang) a historic building….

00:03:27

JK:      So, she — the family grew up relatively stably. And...so, the family home was

called 삼청장 (Sam-cheong-Jang). It’s — and she — her — one of her missions is

to have her family home designated as a cultural site.

00:03:58

SK:      And I know we will talk about this later, but....

00:04:01

JK:      Yes.

00:04:01

SK:      There are 삼청장 (Sam-cheong-Jang)....

00:04:02

JK:      But right now, we just have to talk about your childhood.

00:04:05

SK:      …Kim Gu’s Gyeong-kyo-Jang (경교장), I-hwa-Jang (이화장).... These three in

total.

00:04:07

JK:      Yes, that is for later.

00:04:08

SK:      I lived in a place called “Shindang-dong” (신당동).

00:04:09

JK:      Ahh!

00:04:09

SK:      So, I have memories going over to my grandfather’s house often. And he came

over to my Shindang-dong (신당동) house to rest. So, when he [came] over, we ran over to greet him. And I have a scar here from — .

00:04:32

JK:      Yes, yes.

00:04:33

SK:      — falling often.

00:04:34

JK:      So, she — her family didn’t live too far from her grandfather, Kimm Kiusic[1]. So,

they visited each other often. So, she — he would come to her house and she

would run out to greet him. And once she fell and she hurt her forehead.

00:04:57

JLK:    Hmm. Would she describe more about her relationship?

00:05:06

JK:      So, both of you.

00:05:19

SK:      What relationship? Paternal grandfather?

00:05:21

JK:      Your grandpa.

00:05:25

SK:      My grandfather almost grew up as if he were an orphan. I think because he lived

a very lonely life. When my siblings were born, my older sister, older brother….

Although we were young, he loved us dearly and gentle to the point that I still

remember it even after I got older.

00:05:49

JK:      So, Mr. Kimm Kiusic, her grandfather — .

00:05:52

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:05:52

JK:      — grew up just like an orphan.

00:05:54

JLK:    Hmm.

00:05:55

JK:      And so, he really loved his grandchildren, his children very, very much. So, she

vividly remembered the kind of loving relationship.

00:06:11

SK:      And after the war broke out, his life turned 180-degrees.

00:06:20

JK:      So, after the war, however, the family dynamics turned around. It just became so

difficult.

00:06:29

JLK:    Hmm.

00:06:29

JK:      And then we’ll hear more explained to you.

00:06:31

JLK:    Okay. Wonderful.

00:06:32

JK:      Dr. Kim, what was your grandpa like?

00:06:40

DK:     I never had [a] chance to [grow] up under his supervision when I was young

because he left for Korea during the year 1904. When my mother was only one and a half years old. And she was [an] only child. So, under Japanese occupation, their relationship was not — is very, very hard because the Japanese occupied, always watching the — my family. And to see any kind of communication they’re receiving from my mother’s father. So, it was [a] very uncomfortable situation. But, after World War II, I was able to come to this country. That’s the — after [the] Korean War, 1959. I had a chance to live with him in his house for what...ninety days. And thereafter, I moved to Washington State to pursue my education. So, I had a very short length of time to build a relationship with him. I have strong impressions from him was...he was kind of [a] reserved gentleman with a very high education. And very lovely since I’m the only one, blood-related child he [ever] met.

00:08:31

JK:      Hmm.

00:08:31

DK:     So, we were kind of even distance wise...I was in Washington State, he’s now in

L.A. But we maintained a very close relationship. But [we] never had the chance to have a normal, close relationship between grandfather and the grandchild.

00:08:56

JK:      So, how old were you when you lived with him for ninety days?

00:09:01

DK:     [I was] about twenty-four years old.

00:09:02

JLK:    Hmm.

00:09:03

JK:      Hmm.

00:09:05

JLK:    What would a daily activity or communication look like for you two?

00:09:09

DK:     Well, you know, he always put me [in] his own car. And try to show me kind of

[sightseeing] because I’m new to this country. And [he] took me [to] different [areas]. Hollywood, as well as some farming countryside, San Bernardino area. But he spent some time with me to show me. Yeah.

00:09:40

JK:      So, when you came to the states, did your mom come with you?

00:09:44

DK:     No, she was in Korea. She came afterward.

00:09:49

JK:      Hmm.

00:09:59

JLK:    Would you share about your studies in — just coming — ?

00:10:04

DK:     Well….

00:10:04

JK:      — to California and your studies in Washington?

00:10:06

DK:     In Korea, I mean, I finished law school. But I supposed going to law school at the

University of Washington.

00:10:18

JK:      Mmm.

00:10:19

DK:     When I did the registration in the first semester, my advisor [suggested] to me

that my language was not good enough.

00:10:29

JK:      Mmm.

00:10:30

DK:     So, he suggested to me that I should go to [a] small college and build up my

English capability. And come back to law school to finish that up. Instead, I liked the small schools so [much]. So, I stayed there [for] three years, got an undergraduate degree.

00:10:53

JK:      What was the name of the school?

00:10:55

DK:     Pacific Lutheran University, Tacoma, Washington.

00:11:02

JLK:    What made you select that school, was it because of — ?

00:11:05

DK:     Well, because it was only thirty-five miles south of [the] University of Washington.

That’s close. That is the first reason. And number two, [the] school was small.

Only had less than 2,000 students. So, I was able to get the special attention

from faculties.

00:11:28

JLK:    Mhmm. What was your reaction coming to California?

00:11:34

JK:      Could we — ?

00:11:34

JLK:    First, should we go back?

00:11:36

JK:      Yeah, just go back to — .

00:11:36

JLK:    Yes, of course.

00:11:37

JK:       — Dr. Kim and then — .

00:11:39

JLK:    Please. Dr. Kim.

 

 

00:11:39

JK:      So, schools — can you share with us what schools you attended and what you

studied? Can you share a bit with us?

00:11:49

SK:      For middle and high school, I went to Jungshin (정신) all-girls high school.

00:11:55

JK:      So, [she] went to Jungshin (정신) girls high school.

00:11:59

JLK:    Okay.

00:12:02

SK:      For college, I went to med school at Ewha University.

00:12:05

JK:      She went to med school at Ewha Woman’s University.

00:12:09

JLK:    Okay. What was the university like at the time?

00:12:17

JK:      How was your university life like?

00:12:21

SK:      What was it like?

00:12:23

JK:      Yes, yes. How was your university experience like?

00:12:28

SK:      To be honest, my time at the university was extremely difficult. So like,

my sister was a pharmacist. She was six years older than me.

00:12:41

JK:      My sister is six years a senior. And she was a pharmacist.

00:12:48

SK:      My sister graduated and she supported me with my tuition. But, you know, the

price for textbooks was a lot. Since we didn’t have money, a long time ago, just

like today, like a skull, 3D figure, we didn’t have them, so we had to get the actual

bone.

00:13:12

JK:      So, my sister supported my tuition for my medical education. At the time, it’s not

only the tuition, but we had to buy very expensive books, specimens, and lab

materials, etcetera.

00:13:29

SK:      And….

00:13:29

JK:      For example, skull, human skull nowadays you could see with, you know, 3D

models.  But at the time, you had to deal with the real ones.

00:13:39

JLK:    Hmm.

00:13:40

SK:      Since we were not abandoned, we passed it around the class. For

example, if we are talking about our hand, I had the skull figure in my hand.

00:13:57

JK:      Ahh!

00:13:57

SK:      We would be going over different lessons. And, there was a book, but we couldn’t

buy them. So, I would go to the library to rent it every two weeks.

00:14:10

JK:      Ahh!

00:14:11

SK:      And I continued reading it. When I think of my time at the university, I just

remember how much I struggled.

00:14:15

JK:      So, the [schooling] at Ewha, was very, very difficult, you know, those memories

are still very vivid to me. For example, while the classes are studying heads, the skulls — because of the limited number, we had to pass it around. So, while the lecture is about [the] head, I had to also look at the skull. So, that kind of thing was very difficult. I couldn’t buy, you know, the very expensive textbooks. So, I had to borrow from the library. You had to return it and recheck it out, every few days — was a struggle.

00:14:58

JLK:    Hmm.

00:14:59

SK:    When I look back at it now, there weren’t that many people who had the   

opportunity to graduate from a university. And for that, I am thankful to be able to study — even though it was difficult (car drives by).

00:15:21

JK:      Hmm.

00:15:21

SK:      And because I studied, I was able to volunteer.

00:15:33

JK:      Mhmm. So, I’m very grateful —.

00:15:35

SK:      I am thankful.

 

00:15:36

JK:      — for the opportunity that I was able to finish higher education during a time

when not too many people could go to college. And because of my degree, I was

able to live a better life and devote some of my time to services.

00:15:56

JLK:    Would you please ask Madame about her studies and choice of STEM education

being something that is a legacy for current women to pursue that sort of field?

So, I think it’s very interesting.

00:16:15

JK:      Oh, okay. So….

00:16:15

JLK:    Her [choice of] science (laughter). Of having pursued a medical career at that

time.

00:16:18

JK:      Ahh!

00:16:19

JLK:    Would she share about her choice in that?

00:16:23

JK:      Mmm. During that time, do you have any reasons that you got to go to medical

school?

00:16:32

SK:      Reason to go to school?

00:16:34

JK:      For medical school.

00:16:36

SK:      My mother was….

00:16:38

JK:      Mhmm.

00:16:39

SK:      My grandfather on my mother’s side was a doctor. He was an independence

fighter. When the…so, my mother grew up in a pretty well-off family. But right before June 25(Korean War) — we learned that my father was unfaithful to my mother. So, she asked for a divorce.

00:17:16

JK:      Okay.

00:17:17

SK:      From then on, what my mother always told us was, “When a woman gets

divorced or abandoned by her husband, her life becomes difficult and cannot

fulfill her duties as a woman.” Therefore, she held onto resentment.

00:17:46

JK:      Hmm.

00:17:46

SK:     Because of this, my mother thought it would be good for women to have a career. So, my sister became a pharmacist. As for me, I never held any negative emotion to this idea.

00:17:59

JK:      Okay.

00:18:00

SK:      And I wasn’t good at studying, but I went to Ewha (laughter).

00:18:05

JK:      (laughter).

00:18:05

SK:      And graduated (laughter).

00:18:06

JK:      So, both of her grandfathers, both of them were independents, activists. So, the

grandfather on the mother’s side was a medical doctor.

00:18:22

JLK:    Okay.

00:18:23

JK:      So, that has a certain influence. But more directly, her mother encouraged her to

have her own career, very safe, a professional career. Because she divorced her husband, she knows the misery [that] women will go through without a secure career. So, her mother encouraged her two children to pursue their own independence through a stable career. And so she never — so her sister, older sister, became a pharmacist. She never questioned about her medical school choice.

00:19:14

JLK:    Wow.

00:19:15

SK:      I shared too much (laughter).

00:19:17

JK:      That’s what makes it fun (laughter). So, the teacher, Mr. Kim…. So, we stopped

him after he graduated.

00:19:30

JLK:    Yes.

00:19:30

JK:      He said he had a business.

00:19:32

JLK:    Yes.

00:19:32

JK:      So, should we hear more about it?

00:19:34

JLK:    Please.

00:19:37

DK:     About my career?

00:19:38

JLK:    Yes, please (laughter).

00:19:39

JK:      Yes.

00:19:40

DK:     Not much to talk about. But after I finished at PLU, I was hired by First American

Title Insurance Company as a title officer because I have a legal background in my education.

00:19:57

JK:      Ahh!

00:19:58

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:19:59

DK:     But I figured in order for me to live in this country...then I was...my nationality was

Korean. I was not [an] American citizen at all. I thought I should engage [in] some kind of business instead of — to [pursue] my legal profession in the future. So, I got into business as a one man operation.

00:20:37

JK:      What kind of business was it?

00:20:39

DK:     Well, we were manufacturing prescription lenses.

00:20:44

JK:      Prescription?

00:20:45

DK:     Prescription lenses — lenses like what you’re wearing.

00:20:49

JK:      Oh, lenses!

00:20:50

DK:     Yes.

00:20:51

JK:      Oh!

00:20:51

JLK:    How did — ?

00:20:52

DK:     Yeah.

00:20:52

JLK:    — you discover that industry?

00:20:53

DK:     Why because...kind of [an] accident. That merchandise was introduced to me by

one of my friends. And I didn’t care too much about their products, but because of the law requirements on original investment, that attracted me.

00:21:19

JK:      Mmm.

00:21:20

DK:     So, I took the chance by taking their products and I [started] building my

business. As I [built] the business, I [had] to build a small laboratory to produce the products. Thereafter, it’s grown, I [had] to expand my production capacity. So, by the time I reached about 6,000 customer base in North America and South America and Central America, we became the second largest —.

00:22:06

JK:      Wow!

00:22:08

DK:     — prescription lense manufacturer.

00:22:11

JK:      Is it like contact lenses or — ?

00:22:13

DK:     No. It’s…

00:22:14

JK:      It’s just glasses?

00:22:15

DK:     The glasses.

00:22:16

JK:      Ahh!

00:22:17

DK:     But, you know, it made up the glass materials. Also, made up CR 39. There [are] so many different materials introduced by different manufacturers. And it became a — quite a business. It’s complicated as well.

00:22:33

JK:      Wow!

00:22:34

JLK:    Hmm.

00:22:34

JK:      Wow!

 

 

 

00:22:35

DK:     So, by the time when I was ready to retire, year 2014, we’re [the] second largest in [the] United States. And we employed about five hundred and forty-seven people. Now [I’m] retired, but I have to keep myself busy.

00:23:04

JLK:    Yes!

00:23:05

DK:     So….

00:23:05

JK:      So, [do] you still have the company?

00:23:07

DK:     No. I sold the company to the company called Essilor Upper Italy, pardon, France.

That’s the world’s largest lense manufacturer.

00:23:21

JK:      Huh.

00:23:22

DK:     Located in France. You heard about Carl Zeiss, Zeiss of Germany?

00:23:29

JK:      Mmm.

00:23:30

DK:     Yeah, they are all similar kind of — the manufacturer. And right now — you heard

about the Luxottica, LensCrafters?

00:23:43

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:23:43

JK:      Mhmm.

00:23:44

DK:     Okay. They’re a part of Luxottica Group. And Luxottica and Essilor merged.

00:23:50

JK:      Mmm.

00:23:51

DK:     So, now they became a [world's] largest optical related company.

00:23:58

JK:      Mmm.

00:23:58

DK:     Their annual revenue goes over one hundred and ten billion dollars.

00:24:03

JK:      Wow!

00:24:04

DK:     Yeah. So, I sold my company to them.

00:24:07

JK:      I see.

00:24:08

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:24:08

DK:     Yeah.

00:24:09

JLK:    Hmm.

00:24:10

JK:      What was your major [at] the college...in — at PLU?

00:24:15

DK:     Economics.

00:24:16

JLK:    Hmm.

00:24:16

JK:      Economics. Okay.

00:24:18

JLK:    How did you choose that step — place in study?

00:24:22

DK:     You know, [the] whole purpose I went to PLU was to improve my English capability.

00:24:31

JK:      Mhmm.

00:24:32

DK:     So, [my] major was not that important. The factor…. I don’t think I’m answering your question, but I did not pursue Economics to [become] an economic expert. I just pursued Economics to beef up my English capability.

00:24:55

JLK:    Hmm.

00:24:56

DK:     I mean, it sounds funny now, right (laughter)?

00:24:59

JK:      (laughter).

00:24:59

JLK:    (laughter).

 

00:25:00

DK:     Yeah. But anyway, to answer your question, my major was Economics.

00:025:06

JK:      Okay.

00:25:06

DK:     Yeah, at the PLU.

00:25:09

JLK:    Hmm.

00:25:09

DK:     And I suppose go back to law school at the University of Washington — .

00:25:13

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:25:13

DK:     — which I never did.

00:25:16

JK:      So, you never went back to UW?

00:25:18

DK:     No.

00:25:19

JK:      Ahh!

00:25:23

JLK:    How did you choose law school initially? What led you there, was there

anything...?

00:25:28

DK:     You mean — ?

00:25:29

JLK:    Just from personal relationships?

00:25:32

JK:      (Mumble).

 00:25:34

JLK:    Just like — I wonder about your choices like Madame Kim’s experience with

medical being nurtured through her family. Was there any sort of guiding factor for law school initially for you?

00:25:49

DK:     Well, you know, my father was a lawyer.

00:25:52

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:25:54

DK:     And we have a lot of lawyers in my family. My two sons are lawyers. My two great

— my grandsons are finishing up the law school this year.

00:26:11

JK:      Hmm.

00:26:12

DK:     They are going to be lawyers (laughter).

00:26:13

JLK:    (laughter).

00:26:14

DK:     I think it’s in our blood.

00:26:15

JLK:    Uh-huh.

00:26:15

JK:      Hmm.

00:26:16

DK:     Yeah.

00:26:17

JLK:    Would you share more about your parents, perhaps?

00:26:21

DK:     My father was, as I said, [a] lawyer. But — he didn’t have no, no private firm to

practice the law. He was kind of [a] corporate lawyer. His company is called Yuhan, which is a pharmaceutical company.

00:26:52

JK:      Were you in Yanghaemyung (양해명)?

00:26:53

DK:     Yes.

00:26:54

JK:      Whoa!

00:26:56

DK:     But that’s a long time ago. My mother was a housewife.

00:27:07

JLK:    What sort of stories did you hear growing up about even yourself, like childhood,

that you’d like to share with us, maybe by your upbringing?

00:27:19

DK:     You know, I’m side tracked because of the Korean War.

00:27:24

JLK:    Sure.

00:27:25

DK:     I [had] my own ambition, but I had a lot of dreams (laughter). But never

accomplished anything. [The] Korean War broke out and I was drafted in [the] Korean Army. And I finished my duty and I went to college. And I finished the duty and came to this country.

00:27:50

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:27:50

DK:     So, I never had — I never [was] able to pursue my original goal. I was sidetracked

because of the war.

00:28:03

JLK:    Mmm.

00:28:04

DK:     Yeah.

00:28:05

JLK:    Would you share about those experiences with us about serving in the Korean

War?

00:28:11

DK:     Well, it was very brutal. I was in the front line during the peak season of the

Korean War, about four months. So, I saw very…very...sad sight of the situation.

00:28:43

JLK:    Hmm.

00:28:44

DK:     And the killing mostly. And we’re kind of puppets. We were given orders, we followed the orders. Yeah. I did not — I was too young to make my own comments or any kind of — my own opinion toward the war. But I was young and I was drafted and given orders. I just carried [it] out. Yeah. But I was the commission — youngest commissioned officer in ROK [Republic of Korea] Army[2]. I was commissioned as [a] second lieutenant when I was sixteen years old.

00:29:33

JK:      What year were you born?

00:29:34

DK:     1934.

00:29:43

JK:      Sixteen years older than your — ?

00:29:46

DK:     Yes.

00:29:49

JLK:    Hmm. Wow. Would you share about learning your family’s history?

00:30:03

DK:     I had five brothers and [a] sister, including myself. All three of my brothers are

victims of the Korean War. One of the three brothers was killed.

00:30:25

JK:      One of three?

00:30:26

DK:     Yes. And my oldest brother served, of course, in the Syng-man Rhee’s

government.

00:30:35

JLK:    Hmm.

00:30:35

DK:     And my second oldest brother, he became a business person. And I had one

sister. She also graduated where (Dr. Soook Kim) — same Ewha Woman’s

University.

00:30:52

JLK:    Hmm.

00:30:54

DK:     But she attended university when Ewha Woman’s College was Ewha Professional

School (전문)

00:31:04

JK:      I see.

00:31:04

DK:     Yeah.

00:31:05

JK:      Very, very early years.

00:31:07

DK:     Yeah.

00:31:07

JK:      (laughter).

00:31:07

JLK:    (laughter).

00:31:10

DK:     That’s all I can tell you (laughter).

00:31:11

JLK:    Huh.

00:31:11

SK:      Was there a college?

00:31:13

JK:      Ewha professional.... So, your sister — ?

00:31:17

DK:     Yes.

00:31:18

JK:      Your sister — ? Your younger sister?

00:31:21

DK:     Older sister.

00:31:22

JK:      His older sister.

00:31:23

DK:     Yes.

00:31:23

JK:      Graduated from Ewha professional school.

00:31:25

SK:      So, there was Ewha professional school?

00:31:26

DK:     Yes.

00:31:27

JK:      Yes, Ewha career school.

00:31:27

DK:     Ewha career school is — .

00:31:29

JK:      Ewha University.

00:31:30

DK:     — before Ewha University, it was Ewha career school. After liberation, they changed the name from Ewha career school to Ewha University.

00:31:44

JK:      So, should we — ?

00:31:45

JLK:    Yes, please.

00:31:46

JK:      — ask parallel questions to Dr. Kim?

00:31:49

JLK:    Absolutely. Maybe we should start with her parents with Dr. Kim.

00:31:54

JK:      We would like to ask you about your parents.

00:31:58

SK:      Because my parents were in the middle of getting a divorce.

00:32:02

JK:      They divorced because of my father’s infidelity.

00:32:03

SK:      During that time, getting a divorce was a.… I never shared with anyone about my

parents’ divorce until now honestly.

00:32:13

JK:      What year was that? The year they got divorced?

00:32:16

SK:      After 6/25 (car horn). Before my grandfather was kidnapped, my father brought a

woman and introduced her as “the new girl” I think. So, my grandfather rejected saying, “I only have one daughter-in-law.” Then he really adored my mother dearly, but then…..

00:32:56

JK:      Okay. So, before the Korean War, their parents divorced. It came out this way.

Her father one day brought a woman home. [He introduced] her to his parents

saying, “This is my wife.”

00:33:18

SK:      Do I have to share this?

00:33:20

JK:      Say it.

00:33:21

DK:     (Mumbles).

00:33:24

JK:      So, the father said, “I only have one daughter-in-law.” So, he supported her

mother, you know, very, very much. So, he didn’t recognize the second woman.

00:33:41

JLK:    Wow.

00:33:42

JK:      So, that’s — . And then....

00:33:46

SK:      But my grandfather was taken to North Korea.

00:33:50

JK:      But her grandfather was taken to North Korea during the war.

00:33:58

JLK:    Wow.

00:34:00

SK:      After two, three years later, they got divorced.

00:34:03

JK:      So, two, three years after that, they divorced.

00:34:08

SK:      If she doesn’t divorce him, he will kill her. I asked her why she divorced him. And

she answered, “He threatened me to kill me.”

00:34:23

JK:      So, her mother was actually threatened if you don’t divorce me, you know, that

kind of pressure (car).

00:34:31

JLK:    Okay.

00:34:32

JK:      So, she — .

00:34:32

SK:      I want to stop talking about it now (laughter).

00:34:36

JK:      Okay. So, let’s not talk too much about this kind of matter (laughter).

00:34:39

JLK:    Okay. Maybe — .

00:34:40

JK:      Just need [to] — . Then how do they get married?

00:34:46

SK:      My mother’s side of grandfather….

00:34:47

JK:      I asked, but how did they marry?

00:34:49

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:34:50

SK:      My grandfather, as a doctor, went to — .

00:34:55

JK:      Your mother’s side of grandfather?

00:34:56

SK:      My Grandfather on my mother’s side in China started the Red Cross (홍십자) as

an owner.

00:35:01

JK:      Hmm.

00:35:02

SK:      When my mom was in her teens, she went to China before she got married. So,

a lot of independence activists lived together.

00:35:15

JK:      Mhmm.

00:35:16

SK:      So then, they know each other and got married to one another.

00:35:23

JK:      Where in China was this?

00:35:25

SK:      Eh?

00:35:25

JK:      Where in China?

00:35:28

SK:      So...when my grandfather was doing Red Cross Hospital (홍십자), it was in

Wanxian (만현)

00:35:34

JK:      Wanxian (만현)?

00:35:34

SK:      There was somewhere in between of Shanghai (상해) and Chongqing (중경)

00:35:40

JK:      Ahh!

00:35:40

SK:      And then, if anyone was sick working for the provisional government, then my

grandfather would cure them. And for an oriental medicine doctor, Siyeong Lee, the teacher was there to help.

00:35:59

JK:      So, when her grandfather, her mother’s father, was about — working as a doctor

in Wanxian (만현), China, which is somewhere between Shanghai and Chongqing. And he was treating independent workers.

00:36:24

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:36:26

JK:      So, all these Korean independence activists lived in the same area together.

00:36:32

JLK:    Mhmm. Okay.

00:36:33

JK:      So, they knew each other, all.

00:36:36

SK:      During that time, my mother was pretty.

00:36:43

JK:      Your mother?

00:36:44

SK:      My mother was very pretty, so independence activists like Kim Gu and Ahn

Changho liked her.

00:36:54

JK:      Mmm.

00:36:54

SK:      When my mother went to Shanghai for the first time, Ahn Changho bought her

leather shoes. And she was loved by independence activists. Then, when she

was at an age to get married, my father, while he was alive, loved her.

00:37:31

JK:      So, her mother was a beautiful woman.

00:37:35

SK:      (laughter).

00:37:37

JK:      She was loved by people like Kim Ku and Ahn Changho. And they would just,

you know, buy gifts [for] her because she’s endeared by everyone. So, that’s how I think they — . And then her father liked her as well. I think that’s the beginning (laughter).

00:38:08

JLK:    Okay. Great! Huh!

00:38:10

SK:      My uncles…(mumbles).

00:38:11

JLK:    Wonderful. Thank you.

00:38:18

SK:      But then the….

00:38:19

JK:      So the house, 삼청장 (Sam-cheong-Jang), was your grandfather’s house?

00:38:23

SK:      Sam-cheong-Jang.

 

00:38:24

JK:      Your grandfather’s house? So, this is — this house is a Sam-cheong-Jang. The

home of Kimm Kiusic.

00:38:32

JLK:    Oh! Okay.

00:38:34

SK:      So….

00:38:35

JK:      So, your mother, which one is your mother?

00:38:37

JLK:    This is the home that she’s trying to create a cultural heritage?

00:38:40

JK:      Yes.

00:38:40

SK:      The one holding the baby.

00:38:41

JLK:    Okay.

00:38:43

DK:     Holding the baby.

00:38:45

JK:      Ahh! This is your mother?

00:38:48

SK:      Ey (Sound effect meaning “No” in Korean).

00:38:49

JLK:    Hmm.

00:38:50

DK:     (laughter).

00:38:51

SK:      You don’t know what is pretty.

00:38:52

JK:      No, no.

00:38:53

JLK:    (laughter).

00:38:53

JK:      That’s what people said.

00:38:55

SK:      This is my mother.

00:38:56

JK:      Oh!

00:38:56

SK:      And this is me and my younger sibling. And here —

00:39:03

JK:      Ah! She is a beauty (laughter). Do you need to — ?

00:39:08

JLK:    Yes, please.

00:39:09

JK:      — share this?

 00:39:10

DK:     What is it?

00:39:12

JLK:    Mmm.

00:39:13

DK:     Who is this?

00:39:14

JK:      Mother.

00:39:15

DK:     Who is it?

00:39:16

JK: The mother?

00:39:17

DK:     Hmm (Meaning - Yes).

00:39:19

JK:      This is the mother.

00:39:23

JLK:    Okay.

00:39:26

JK:      Okay.

00:39:29

SK:      It is because the picture is in a bad condition. My mother was pretty.

00:39:33

JK:      This, do you have the film?

00:39:37

SK:      We have the original copy, but it is old.

00:39:40

JK:      If we can digitalize [it] with high resolution, it will come out well.

00:39:45

SK:      But to me, the family member, who was it? This, how do you say this?

00:39:53

JK:      Scan. Digitize.

00:39:56

SK:      Digitized.

00:39:57

JK:      Hmm.

00:39:59

SK:     Film...I think I might have it. But if this is not the right thing, I can’t do anything. But I still brought it.

00:40:05

JK:      Yes, yes. I’ll look at it.

00:40:05

SK:      I shouldn’t give it since my parents’ wedding pictures are in it because I don’t feel

comfortable.

00:40:20

JK:      When your parents got divorced, how old was your mother?

00:40:25

SK:      Anyway, it was before 6/25 (Korean War). I, anyway, I didn’t talk about

this for decades.

00:40:34

JK:      Yes.

00:40:34

SK:      Not too long ago, the president of Memorial Foundation of the Korean Provisional

Government, wrote a book that is kind of like an autobiography. And I saw that she wrote about my parents divorce story. So, I was like, “Aish” (laughter).

00:40:49

JK:      She was always reluctant to talk about the divorce. She actually never openly

talked about it. She was very shocked to read about her parents divorce by — in the writing by someone. Who wrote it again?

00:41:06

SK:      The current chairman of the Memorial Foundation of the Korean Provisional

Government.

00:41:09

JK:      Ahh! The chairman of the Memorial Foundation of the Korean Provisional

Government — .

00:41:18

JLK:    Wow!

00:41:20

JK:      — wrote about the divorce and she was shocked, too.

00:41:24

JLK:    Wow! At what age did this happen?

00:41:27

SK:      So…even though divorce happe[ed], it is very common today, but during that

time….

00:41:34

JK:      Divorce nowadays is very common. Nothing to be ashamed of. But at that time

00:41:40

SK:      And….

00:41:41

JK:      — it was a social taboo.

00:41:42

JLK:    Mmm.

00:41:44

SK:      I just naturally [have] not shared about it.

00:41:47

JK:      So, I never wanted to talk about it.

00:41:49

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:41:50

JK:      So, this is the — probably [the] first time.

00:41:52

JLK:    The first. Sure.

00:41:54

SK:      So then...even this time while working for my grandfather, to my father,

sometimes, I have to say something. But I heard my father was also an independence movement activist. But to be honest, I have nothing to say. And I don’t want to say anything about my father’s divorce, so.

00:42:20

JK:      Okay.

00:42:20

SK:      Please say something else.

00:42:21

JK:      Then, after the divorce, you didn’t keep your relationship with your father?

00:42:28

SK:      Like, my father was irresponsible. When we were in middle and high school, he

never took any responsibilities.

00:42:35

JK:      So, I asked her, “Did you have [a] relationship with your dad after the divorce?”

And she says, “He’s a type — an irresponsible type. He never supported us through our schooling.”

00:42:50

JLK:    Hmm.

00:42:50

JK:      Etc.

00:42:51

JLK:    Wow.

00:42:53

SK:      So now, I.

00:42:54

JLK:    We’ll have that reach — (sounds from the video camera).

00:42:57

JK:      So. when they got divorced, Dr. Kim, how old were you? You must have been

young.

00:43:06

SK:      Me?

00:43:06

JK:      No, so when they got divorced, when your mother and father got divorced, how

old were you?

00:43:13

SK:      Hmm.

00:43:14

JK:      You said before June 25(Korean War).

00:43:14

SK:     When I was seven, June 25 happened…. The divorce happened after June 25. And when that lady started coming over to my house, my mother was a working mother, buying sneakers and being treated with sympathy during that time. This is seriously my first time saying it. That, [the] trauma’s impact was huge and seeing my father changing over time.

00:43:53

JK:      So, how old were you?

 

00:43:53

SK:      Right now, I am, through my father, I had a great grandfather. So, growing up, I

resented to my father.

00:44:08

JK:      Okay.

00:44:09

SK:      But I would like to think that an excellent grandfather — .

00:44:14

JK:      Okay.

00:44:14

SK:      — was gifted to me.

00:44:15

JK:      So, even though I — .

00:44:17

SK:      I don’t know if that makes sense (laughter).

00:44:21

JK:      — [I] hated my father. [Yet,] I’m grateful because he gave us our grandfather.

00:44:29

JLK:    Mhmm.

 00:44:30

JK:      A grandfather who is….

00:44:31

SK:      But, I don’t want my family issues to be shared in public.

00:44:35

JK:      I didn’t mean to actually talk about my — this kind of family stories.

00:44:41

JLK:    Hmm.

00:44:42

JK:      If you wish, you can delete this part later.

00:44:45

JLK:    Maybe we can go into her legacy.

00:44:47

JK:      Yeah. Okay. So….

00:44:48

JLK:    Shift into her grandparents, their birth and just learning about their story.

00:44:54

JK:      Okay. Then, starting now, since you like to talk more about grandfather. How

many grandchildren he had? So, I want to actually ask how many children did he have?

00:45:06

JLK:    Yes. Okay.

00:45:06

JK:      Besides her father.

00:45:08

JLK:    Okay.

00:45:09

SK:      The siblings who survived were two boys and one girl.

00:45:14

JK:      Mmm.

00:45:15

SK:      My father is the oldest son.

 

00:45:17

JK:      Mmm.

00:45:18

SK:      And there was one younger sister and one younger brother. They were

grandmother Kim Soon-ae, they were kidnapped to North Korea.

00:45:25

JK:      Mmm.

00:45:26

SK:      My father's grandmother passed away from tuberculosis(폐결핵).

00:45:35

JK:      Mmm. Okay. But, the younger brother is — ?

00:45:49

SK:      All dead.

00:45:50

JK:      Yes, yes. So, what did the grandfather leave to his children? Like mindset,

heritage? Can you tell us?

00:46:05

SK:      My grandfather didn’t have any major inheritance for us. But, umm.

00:46:11

JK:      So like, physical inheritance?

00:46:13

SK:      Huh?

00:46:14

JK:      Not only that.

00:46:15

SK:      I’m sure there was no physical inheritance given from him. There was almost

nothing left at my small house. They were always poor.

00:46:25

JK:      Mmm.

00:46:25

SK:      And Sam-cheong-Jang is not my grandfather’s property, Min Kyusik, he is the

descendant of the pro-Japanese group.

00:46:35

JK:      Mmm.

00:46:35

SK:      [The] pro-Japanese group probably including the stadium, gave everything to

use. But...so then, there was a house that he lived in. When I see my grandfather, my grandfather became a great person who cannot even be compared to others.

00:47:03

JK:      Mmm.

00:47:04

SK:      When I think about that, I am not the right person to even talk about his

circumstances. And when I think of  my grandfather after I grew up, he survived and became a great person despite his poor condition during his time. So, I am not in a position to even complain about it.

00:47:30

JK:      When I think about my grandfather, he had a really difficult childhood, you know,

background... But he turned out to be a brilliant person who worked for Korea so much. So, I — when I run into difficulties, etc. I try to think of him. And he overcame so much to reach where he was. And really, what I’m going through now is really nothing compared to what he did.

00:48:16

JLK:    Lovely. When did she find out about her heritage and just the legacy?

00:48:23

JK:      So, starting when did you get to know your grandfather had a great legacy?

00:48:34

SK:      When I was young, when I was young — I went to Sam-cheong-Jang

and places like that. Everyone treated me with love, so naturally, nothing specific. I just realized he was something great.

00:49:07

JK:      So, when I was — .

00:49:07

SK:      Before.

00:49:08

JK:      When I was a young kid, I would go to Sam-cheong-Jang. And people there

would love me. And I just grew up in, you know, saturated from people who talk

about it. But I never knew any details, anything serious or solid about him.

00:49:35

JLK:    Hmm.

00:49:36

SK:       Like the previous picture, we were always in the center (laughter).

00:49:42

JK:      So, you know, you can see from the picture that I showed you earlier that

whenever there were groups [pictures], we’re always in the center.

00:49:52

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:49:53

SK:      That was just natural, and after 6/25, even at school, I still vividly remember,

when I was in fifth or sixth grade, my teacher asked us if there was anyone who got kidnapped to North Korea.

00:50:13

JK:      So, I clearly remember this one. This one piece of memory when I was fifth or

sixth grade in elementary school. [The] teacher asked the class, “Any of you have a family member who was kidnapped to [the] North?”

00:50:33

SK:      So, I raised my hand because my grandfather [Kimm Kiusic] got kidnapped.

00:50:36

JK:      So, I raised my hand.

00:50:38

SK:      But I was told to put my hand down.

00:50:41

JK:      And said — .

00:50:41

SK:      So….

00:50:42

JK:      Put your hand down.

00:50:44

JLK:    Hmm.

00:50:44

SK:      I thought I was asked to raise my hand because my grandfather was a famous

person. But I realized that she knew that he voluntarily went to North Korea.

00:50:56

JK:      So, the teacher told her to put her hand down. And she didn’t understand. And it

turns out that the teacher thought that her grandfather voluntarily chose to go to North Korea.

00:51:14

JLK:    Hmm.

00:51:15

SK:      So then, after my mother divorced, whenever she missed us, she called us to the

side and went over to the palace or somewhere.

00:51:33

JK:      Your grandfather?

00:51:33

SK:      My mother. My mother.

00:51:39

JK:      Who did you live with after the divorce?

00:51:42

SK:      My mom lived separately, and we lived with — .

00:51:47

JK:      A stepmother.

00:51:48

SK:      Yes. So, we would go and buy canned food. It had been so long since we saw

each other, yet, I still remember everything - from purchasing canned foods to the taxi cab we took to their facial expressions. I remember it all. They asked us  to get out of the car and unpack our bags, my mother asked why, but revealed to them we only had food in our bags -- they then felt uncomfortable and let us go.

00:52:21

JK:      Who were they?

00:52:22

SK:      Detectives were following us around.

00:52:32

JK:      So, we were — it looks like they were always under surveillance. One day my

mother, who was living after the divorce, she was living elsewhere. And then, you know, her and her sibling were living with the new woman.

00:52:51

JLK:    Hmm.

00:52:52

JK:      — at the father’s house. And one day, the mother visited them, took them to a

picnic.

00:53:00

JLK:    Hmm.

00:53:00

JK:      And then on the way, a very ferocious looking man stopped them. And

demanded to see what’s in the bag. And so, he noticed that — it was just only picnic food, nothing else.

00:53:20

JLK:    Huh.

00:53:21

JK:      So, he just left them alone.

00:53:23

SK:      I, later learned that it was not only my family who was affected, but also my

teacher’s family... Kim Sang-duk was one of the members who was involved in February 8[3] (2.8 독립선언).  I met his son, who was one of youngest to experience 6/25 -- he was just in middle school when the war broke out and his family packed to evacuate. But, the president announced Seoul was still safe and under control, promising to protect the city. When the son and his father heard the announcement they unpacked their bag, not knowing the president himself had fled to Daejeon. Because they stayed -- the son and his father were kidnapped and accused of being traitors to North Korea. They suffered immensely.

00:54:26

JK:      So, this was not — this was actually prevalent for other families as well. So,

during the war, her, Kim Sang-duk — was she your friend?

00:54:40

SK:      No. Kim Sang-duk was….

00:54:42

JK:      Sangduk’s father.

00:54:42

SK:     With my grandfather’s support -- he [Kim Sangduk’s father] was able to become the school principal.

00:54:46

JK:      Ahh!

00:54:47

SK:      He was also able to study abroad.

00:54:49

JK:      Okay.

00:54:50

SK:      Then he later became the school principal of Kyungshin School and because

of that he truly became to respect my grandfather.

00:54:57

JK:      So, anyway. So, her other family — she’s aware of other families' experiences.

00:55:06

JLK:    Hmm.

00:55:06

JK:      Similar [types] of things. And when the — actually the family was kidnapped to

North. They were misunderstood as having gone, you know, on their own choice, voluntarily.

00:55:24

JLK:    Wow.

00:55:24

JK:      So….

00:55:24

SK:      So anyway, he said he had a hard time.

00:55:25

JK:      It was [a] very difficult period.

00:55:28

JLK:    Who...where did that information falsely...who was sending those messages of

willingness to go?

00:55:35

JK:      Then, there were false information of “voluntarily going to North Korea” coming

from? From where and why, why, getting kidnapped and voluntarily going, and stories on family sides, everyone talks differently about it. Why did rumors start going around?

00:55:59

SK:      It is not my place to say this, but during the political regime with President Rhee

Syngman -- pro-Japanese members took over the broadcasting and education fields with their power. From what I recall, Korea became known as the “half government,” because of our separation, which was everything my grandfather was against nor wanted — .

00:56:51

JK:      That.

00:56:51

SK:      He wanted the unification because when you supported having “one government

[단정],” people thought of you as a person who betrayed the nation. However, when you say you were a part of the anti-trustee movement [반탁], then your stance naturally becomes supportive of a unified government system without causing any problems. So, he didn’t say he was for “one government,” but rather he supported the anti-trustee movement.

00:57:18

JK:      So, this has a lot to do with the political situation at the time.

00:57:26

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:57:28

JK:      This was a very unstable period.

00:57:30

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:57:31

JK:      And Rhee Syngman wanted, you know, one way. Her grandfather wanted

another way.

00:57:37

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:57:38

JK:      And so, and then Rhee Syngman, having appointed many people into, you

know, pro-Japanese people — .

00:57:49

JLK:    Yes.

00:57:49

JK:      — into various important positions. Just this was, you know, the social/political

situation at the time.

00:57:58

JLK:    Sure. Was it like a puppet regime where — with the marketing as far as the

media? Is that why there [are] these messages of willingness of going? I’m just wondering about that political climate? Why people in this — reporting that? So, where — which media outlet was, you know, kind of guiding that message (laughter)? So, I just want to know if that’s something she’s willing to share about? But — .

00:58:30

JK:      Umm….

00:58:34

JLK:    I know it’s pretty chaotic (laughter).

00:58:35

JK:      It’s — .

00:58:36

JLK:    So, it’s difficult to — .

00:58:37

JK:      Yeah.

00:58:37

JLK:    — trace your….

00:58:38

JK:      It’s very difficult.

00:58:39

JLK:    Okay.

00:58:39

JK:      It’s just the instability — .

00:58:43

JLK:    Okay.

00:58:43

JK:      — situation. And, you know, it’s just a very difficult situation.

00:58:52

JLK:    Okay.

00:58:53

JK:      Political situation.

00:58:54

SK:      My grandfather, from the start, wanted to find all pro-Japanese members.

00:58:58

JK:      So….

00:58:59

SK:      Pro-Japanese…(mumbles).

00:59:00

JK:      Her grandfather —

00:59:00

SK:      Pro-Japanese, pro-Japanese took control at the end.

00:59:01

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:59:02

JK:      — was definitely against pro-Chinese.

00:59:08

JLK:    Yes.

00:59:08

JK:      And pro-Japanese people — .

00:59:10

JLK:    Right.

00:59:10

JK:      — because he worked for Korean independence — .

00:59:12

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:59:13

JK:      — against Japan.

00:59:14

JLK:    Right.

00:59:15

JK:      Rhee Syngman supposedly did the same thing.

00:59:17

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:59:17

JK:      But, after he became the president, he didn’t have too many choices I guess to

— . So, he had to work with the pro-Japanese people — .

00:59:29

JLK:    Right.

00:59:31

JK:      — to lead the government.

00:59:32

JLK:    Mhmm.

00:59:34

JK:      So, there were lots of conflicts and — .

00:59:36

JLK:    How did he navigate that position of power with that sort of political climate? Can

we ask?

00:59:44

JK:      You mean her grandpa?

00:59:45

JLK:    Her — . Yes! Was that something — ?

00:59:48

JK:      So, that’s how I think he was taken to — .

00:59:51

JLK:    Okay.

00:59:51

JK:      — the North. He didn’t have too many years to deal with.

00:59:53

JLK:    Okay.

00:59:55

JK:      So then, when the government system was unstable, can you tell us know your

grandfather overcome during that time?

1:00:09

SK:      When are you talking about?

1:00:11

JK:      So, during “one government (신탁)”, “half-government (반탁)” times….

1:00:16

SK:      Even during that time, my grandfather had principles.

1:00:22

JLK:    Hmm.

1:00:23

SK:      Fighting for independence, after independence, he was involved in the unified

government. And after the unified government. He never thought about it.

1:00:33

JK:      So, he — the one thing he wanted most was unified, one government.

1:00:42

JLK:    Right. Okay.

1:00:44

JK:      But then Rhee Syngman wanted a South Korean government and then Kim

Il-sung[4] went to North Korean government. So, the — Korea became two separate countries.

1:01:00

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:01:01

SK:     If you knew my grandfather’s personality, you would know he does not like Korea being separated. When the US and USSR were in the process of dividing Korea, my grandfather was supposed to work with another person, Lyuh Woon-hyung - but he got killed during the process. They were trying to host the peace summit with North Korea and came up with an agreement to make the unification happen within certain boundaries -- the North and South could make their own decisions. He felt okay about this arrangement. But, after he was killed, my grandfather felt alone in the left to right coalition especially since the US and USSR would not yield; who have since divided Korea. Right now, if Koreans focused and did the best to reach their goals to become unified -- we would have a one unified government formation.

1:02:22

JK:      Okay. So, after — his grandfather really wanted unified — .

1:02:32

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:02:33

JK:       — government. And so, he worked so hard for South and North to work together.

But the U.S. and Russia, they just wanted their own ways.

1:02:46

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:02:47

JK:      So, after Lyuh Woon-hyung[5] passed away, he, you know, Lyuh Woon-hyung got

assassinated, his grandfather really lost his ally. And then just didn’t, you know, lost a lot of momentum.

1:03:03

JLK:    Hmm. Okay. Could we go back to the beginning of his network and how he

became involved with the Liberation Movement?

1:03:15

JK:      Okay.

1:03:16

JLK:    Would it be possible if — ?

1:03:18

JK:      So, before the liberation.

1:03:20

JLK:    Yes.

1:03:20

JK:      During his independence.

1:03:22

JLK:    During the independence movement.

1:03:23

JK:      Independence movement period.

1:03:24

JLK:    So, how they created basically his network? So, how he formed his network,

maybe his affiliate cultural groups and affiliations?

1:03:35

JK:      Okay. So, should we then — ?

1:03:37

JLK:    Maybe you should ask...?

1:03:37

JK:      — ask both of them — ?

1:03:38

JLK:    Yes.

1:03:39

JK:       — the same question?

1:03:39

JLK:    Absolutely, about maybe affiliations with networks? And how he — they

created their colleagues and — ?

1:03:50

JK:      Then let’s start with you, Mr. Kim. So now, did you hear?

1:03:53

DK:     Yes?

1:03:53

JK:      During Japanese Imperialism fighting for independence.

1:04:03

DK:     Yes.

1:04:04

JK:      How was the networking system? And also, can you talk about how it was?

1:04:17

DK:     I was born and raised in Korea. Growing up, I heard about my grandfather

and gained some knowledge.

1:04:34

JK:      Mmm.

1:04:39

DK:     You know, her grandfather and my maternal grandfather and Rhee Syngman

was known as a trio.

1:04:49

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:04:49

DK:     The politicians and all those times I’ve been getting the higher education was

especially important. The oriental people [had] a very difficult time. All three people [were] classmates.

1:05:07

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:05:08

DK:     Graduated Roanoke College in Virginia and Princeton University.[6]

1:05:13

JLK:    Hmm.

1:05:14

DK:     And they worked together all the way up to [the] 1920s. And I think her

grandfather left the U.S.A. and went to China to join the Korean government in

exile in Shanghai.

1:05:31

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:05:32

DK:     Yeah. And Syngman Rhee and my grandfather continued fighting against

the Japanese by conducting the [independence] movement in [the] U.S.A.

1:05:49

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:05:50

DK:     So, I can only tell you this side.

1:05:53

JLK:    Sure.

1:05:53

DK:     Their side I do not know, but my grandfather and Syngman Rhee lead the group

called Dongji-Hoe, that Syngman Rhee. And Gookmin-Hoe by my grandfather. They had some differences in philosophy, but [the] ultimate goal to fight against Japanese was common.

1:06:21

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:06:23

DK:     And they shared some common targets. And they worked together. They argued

together. But all the main events, he always worked Syngman Rhee together. Any representation like the United Nations first meeting in San Francisco. He and my grandfather [were] chief delegates representing Korea and so [forth].

1:06:52

JLK:    Hmm.

1:06:53

DK:     But interesting enough, after World War was over, when Syngman Rhee

Returned, one day he grabbed the power. He tried to keep all his political opponents in the USA and would not allow them to come back.

1:07:11

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:07:12

DK:     So, my grandfather never had the chance to go back to Korea. At that time, I

remember my grandpa said the advice he received from her grandfather was, “Political situation is very unstable, unfriendly, and kind of dangerous. Do not come back.” That is the message he got from his grandfather. So, he was prepared to go back to Korea and wait for the ship going to [the] far East. And he stopped everything and he moved back down L.A. And he settled and lived here until he died. That’s all I can tell you.

1:08:04

JLK:    Hmm.

1:08:06

DK:     But they had — .

1:08:07

JK:      So, his grandfather, your grandfather’s grandfather told him not to come?

1:08:12

DK:     No. Her grandfather — .

1:08:15

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:08:15

DK:     —and my grandfather.

1:08:16

JK:      Her grandfather. Ahh!

1:08:17

JLK:    Yes.

1:08:17

DK:     Are the [collegemates] at the — .

1:08:19

JK:      Yes, yes.

1:08:20

DK:      — Princeton.

1:08:20

JK:      Okay.

1:08:20

DK:      And Roanoke College.

1:08:22

JK:      Right.

1:08:22

DK:     And they’re [roommates].

1:08:23

JLK:    Yes.

1:08:23

JK:      Right, right.

1:08:24

DK:     They’re — .

1:08:24

JLK:    Yes.

1:08:25

JK:      They were close friends.

1:08:26

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:08:26

DK:     It’s not only close friends. They are like brothers.

1:08:28

JLK:    Brotherhood.

1:08:28

JK:      Brothers.

1:08:29

DK:     Yeah.

1:08:29

JK:      Ahh! Okay.

1:08:30

DK:     And he sent a message to my grandfather when he was — .

1:08:35

JK:      Ahh!

1:08:35

DK:     — waiting for the instruction to go back to Korea.

1:08:38

JK:      Ahh! Okay.

1:08:38

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:08:39

DK:     And they were in San Francisco at that time.

1:08:42

JK: Uh-huh.

1:08:42

JLK:    Mhmm.

 

1:08:42

DK:     Her grandfather told him — .

1:08:44

JK:      Ahh!

1:08:44

DK:     — situation is not — .

1:08:45

JLK:    Yes.

 

1:08:46

JK:      Not stable. It’s dangerous.

1:08:47

DK:     — stable. And do not come back.

1:08:48

JLK:    Okay.

1:08:49

JK:      Ahh! Okay.

1:08:50

JLK:    When did you meet each other?

1:08:52

DK:     Well, the first time I met her this morning.

1:08:53

JLK:    Okay (laughter). So….

1:08:54

JK:      Oh! Ahh (laughter)!

1:08:55

DK:     Yeah.

1:08:55

JLK:    Would you share about that experience knowing this history of brotherhood

between your ancestors? Would you share about meeting one another knowing you have this long history from this brotherhood (laughter)?

1:09:10

DK:     You mean between my grandfather — ?

1:09:12

JLK:    Yes.

1:09:12

DK:     — and her grandfather?

1:09:12

JLK:    Yes.

1:09:13

JK:      How did you feel seeing grandfathers being close like brothers?

1:09:22

SK:      I told you earlier that it was exciting to see them together.

1:09:24

DK:     (laughter).

1:09:25

SK:      Don’t you think it is wonderful that their descendants got to meet after 100 years

after their legacy (laughter)?

1:09:38

JK:      It is just amazing to meet him —.

1:09:39

JLK:    Uh-huh.

1:09:40

DK:     Yeah.

1:09:40

JK:      — when our grandparents, you know, one hundred years ago. They were really surprised.

1:09:45

SK:      During my grandfather’s heyday — .

1:09:48

JLK:    Huh!

1:09:48

SK:      — in his 20s and 30s.

1:09:51

DK:     Yes.

1:09:51

SK:      Mr. Kim is the descendant of a political leader that I looked up to during that time.

            I got to meet other descendants at the Korean Provisional organizational

meetings. I became closer to them after meeting them once or twice.

1:10:12

JK:      Mmm.

1:10:13

SK:      We are all descendants of these historical figures. So, when we all met, we

naturally got along (laughter). When I met Kim Bong-joon’s grandson, not

knowing who he was, I didn’t care much. Looking back at this moment, I think,

“Wow!” Because they were together from the beginning of the negotiation between North and South Korea (남북협상) — from getting kidnapped to North Korea, etc. Kim Bong-joon passed away first. He was bombed and then my grandfather passed away three months later.

1:10:57

JK:      Right. So, it doesn’t take them long to...for [feedback from audio]. You know, for

the descendants. When they meet, it doesn’t take long to — .

1:11:07

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:11:08

JK:      — to become, to feel this comradery.

1:11:11

JLK:    Mmm.

1:11:11

JK:      You know, special connection because of the history, of the family histories of

their — .

1:11:17

DK:     You see that— .

1:11:18

JK:      — their ancestors.

1:11:18

DK:     — during the later part of the nineteen...earlier part of [the] 1900s, when they

formed a Korean commission in Washington DC. The three members were trios again, Syngman Rhee, Kimm Kiusic, and Son Hurn-joo. And they formed a kind of government because that organization existed before [the] Korean government in exile, and Shanghai existed. Yeah. And they were very important...the organization for the independence movement at that time. But three people- I have documents here. They are the commissioners. And Syng-man Rhee credited himself as a president of Korea.

1:12:14

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:12:15

DK:     And the...her grandfather was chairman of the committee (ambulance).

1:12:19

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:12:20

DK:     And also, the committee member. And my grandfather’s committee member and

in charge of finance (ambulance).

1:12:32

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:12:33

DK:     And when they issued a bond...you see the bond year….

1:12:39

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:12:39

DK:     They raised the money...the main purpose to raise the money was to support the

Korean independence movement in China under provisional government of Korea. And Syngman Rhee misused the fund.

1:12:58

JLK:    Hmm.

1:12:59

DK:     So, my grandfather was in charge of finance. He cannot take that anymore. So,

he resigned. So, his grandfather was...resigned. So, three kind of — .

1:13:13

JK:      Divorced (laughter).

1:13:14

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:13:14

DK:     The...yeah.

1:13:15

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:13:17

DK:     You know, so that Korean commission is called...what is the right way? I mean,

dismantled.

1:13:31

JK:      Right.

1:13:31

DK:     Yeah. And then her grandfather went to China to join the Korean exile in

Shanghai.

1:13:39

JLK:    Hmm.

1:13:39

DK:     My grandfather stayed in this country, continued. Syng-man Rhee stayed in this

country and continued. But they had different political [parties] at that time.

1:13:53

JLK:    Hmm.

1:13:54

DK:     But even after they were parted, they were communicating [with] each other and

worked together.

1:14:03

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:14:04

DK:     So, there [are] documents, the Korean government in exile in China [Shanghai,

China] appointed my grandfather as a…. If I translate correctly, it is kind of [a] chief financial officer for the government in North America.

1:14:29

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:14:30

DK:     And one of the appoint — I mean the appointees signed for that document was

her grandfather was in China. So, they — I know they worked together.

1:14:42

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:14:43

DK:     All that time.

1:14:43

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:14:44

DK:     Until...and then the World War II.

1:14:48

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:14:49

DK:     Yeah.

1:14:52

JLK:    How much of your family’s history of communication with each [other] — ?

1:14:58

DK:     We never — .

1:14:58

JLK:    — is documented? Do you have — ?

1:15:01

DK:     Younger generation after our grandparents, we never had any communication.

1:15:05

JLK:    Right.

1:15:07

DK:     Today’s my first time [meeting] — .

1:15:08

JLK:    Yes.

1:15:09

DK:     — Doctor Kim.

1:15:10

JLK:    Right. Do you have within your family’s history other transcripts of communication

in letters between the families? Is there any sort of physical remnant of that communication between the California and Shanghai provisional government?

1:15:29

DK:     Well, there’s some. Yes!

1:15:30

JLK:    Some...okay.

1:15:32

DK:     Yes.

1:15:33

JLK:    Which...I know in part is on exhibit here and in the collections, but — .

1:15:36

DK:     I….

1:15:37

JLK:    — is there more in your family’s history, just things that you’ve kept?

1:15:41

DK:     Well, you know, if they want to, I could show them what I have.

1:15:47

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:15:48

DK:     And [if] they want to display here, I’ll be very happy to give to them.

1:15:55

JK:      So, you have your grandfather’s handwritten records?

1:16:02

DK:     Handwritten record of his story?

1:16:04

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:16:04

DK:     No, I….

1:16:05

JK:      His own correspondence.

1:16:07

DK:     Appointment.

1:16:08

JK:      Diaries.

1:16:08

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:16:08

DK:     Oh, what?

1:16:09

JK:      Yeah.

1:16:09

DK:     Thank You note?

1:16:10

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:16:10

JK:      Documents.

1:16:11

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:16:11

DK:     Oh! Yeah.

1:16:12

JK:      Ahh!

1:16:12

JLK:    Personal papers.

1:16:12

DK:     That kind of stuff.

1:16:13

JK:      Ahh!

1:16:13

DK:     Yes.

1:16:14

JLK:    You do? Yeah.

1:16:14

DK:     Yeah.

1:16:14

JK:      So, they are kept in the family?

1:16:17

DK:     Yes.

1:16:19

JK:      I would love to see them.

1:16:20

DK:     But most of the more important documents, my maternal grandfather’s adopted

son has it. He would not release that to me. I do have some, but I’m limited.

1:16:35

JLK:    Sure.

1:16:36

DK:     Yeah.

 

1:16:37

JK:      So, can you tell us more about your, you know, your family...you have?

1:16:46

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:16:47

DK:     Well, as I said, when my grandfather left — .

1:16:53

JK:      Mhmm.

1:16:53

DK:     — Korea in 1904. My mother is only one daughter, only [a] year and a half years old.

1:17:00

JK:      Hmm.

1:17:01

JLK:    Hmm.

1:17:02

DK:     My grandfather came here and built a school in Hawaii in the first three years.

1:17:09

JK:      Hmm.

1:17:10

DK:     And then he went to [the] mainland. And — went to Virginia to register at

Roanoke College.

1:17:20

JK:      Mhmm.

1:17:22

DK:     And the first few [years], he was scouted by Korean King at Daehan Empire

1:17:32

JK:      Mhmm.

1:17:32

DK:     King Kojong.

1:17:33

JK:      Mhmm.

1:17:34

DK:     To join a Korean secret envoy and peace conference in Hague [Netherlands] as

a translator for them.

1:17:42

JK:      Mhmm.

1:17:42

DK:     So, he left university under leave. And he joined the — with them in Hague {Netherlands}.

1:17:51

JK:      Mhmm.

1:17:52

DK:     But one of the Chief [delegates] died. And Japanese intervention was not able to

attend the meeting as a Korean delegation.

1:18:03

JK:      Mhmm.

1:18:04

DK:     So, they failed that. So, that two [delegates], originally starting out three

delegates.[7] One delegate, by name of Yi Tijoune, died.

1:18:16

JK:      Mhmm.

1:18:16

DK:     So, Yi Tijoune, Yi Wi-jong, and my grandfather went to all...visited all

different countries in Europe, England, and USA for diplomatic [missions]...about

four years. And then they went back to China. And my grandfather went back to university in Virginia.

1:18:49

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:18:52

DK:     That’s where he met her grandfather, became a classmate.

1:18:58

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:18:59

DK:     And my roommate. And from there, they pursued Princeton University.

1:19:06

JK:      So, he left his wife and his daughter?

1:19:14

DK:     Yes. Only my mother and my grandmother. But my maternal grandfather

remarried when he was here. That’s...if I’m correct, it’s some — around 1917. And they bear no children, but they have adopted a son.

1:19:50

JK:      So, while [he was] here, [he] had no interaction with your wife who was in

Korea?

1:19:56

DK:     That’s correct. Yeah.

1:19:56

JK:      Even with [his] daughter and wife?

1:19:58

DK:     My grandparents got married in Korea.

1:20:02

JK:      Ahh!

1:20:03

DK:     My grandfather got remarried.

1:20:06

JK:      Ahh!

1:20:07

DK:     And my mother — .

1:20:08

JK:      Ahh!

1:20:09

DK:     — grew up in his great uncle’s house. Cha Melissa was the founder of Duksung

College.

1:20:15

JK:      Mhmm.

1:20:16

DK:     That person after he finished study abroad, he went back to Korea and

became a principal at Paehwa School.

1:20:25

JK:      Mhmm.

1:20:25

DK:     When he became a principal at Paehwa School, my mother’s side of

grandfather asked the principal to take good care of my mother and helped her to

stay at the school dorm and successfully graduate.

1:20:48

JK:      What was the name of the person who took her to the Paehwa School?

1:20:52

DK:     Cha Melissa.

1:20:54

JK:      Ahh!

1:20:55

DK:     Yes. She was the person who started the school.

1:21:03

JK:      Ahh!

1:21:04

DK:     He made Geunhwa School and that is now called Duksung all-girls University.

1:21:07

JK:      Ahh!

1:21:07

DK:     While he was in Woonhyun Palace (운현궁), he treated my mother as his

maternal mother. So, my mother used to call her “mother” and Cha Melissa called her “daughter.”

1:21:19

JK:      Ahh!

1:21:20

DK:     Yeah.

1:21:21

JK:      Okay. So, I asked him what — since he — his grandfather came to the states

leaving his wife and one and a half year old daughter.

1:21:35

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:21:35

JK:      What happened afterward? And so, it turns out that he remarried here.

1:21:39

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:21:40

JK:      And she remarried there. So, this one and a half year old daughter was — grew

up by — was raised by an educator, Cha Melissa who is the founder of Paehwa School.

1:22:00

JLK:    Mmm. Mhmm.

1:22:01

JK:      And Geunhwa School— .

1:22:02

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:22:02

JK:      — which became Duksung University later on. So….

1:22:07

JLK:    Hmm.

1:22:07

JK:      She was basically adopted to — .

1:22:10

JLK:    To this — .

1:22:11

JK:      — this educator.

1:22:12

JLK:    Okay. Wow. Could we ask — ?

1:22:17

DK:     Yeah.

1:22:18

JLK:    — Madame Kim about the Korean connection to America and Europe through

the Republic of Korea, just the role her grandfather took in 1919? So, just discussing that political position? We have historical imagery — (laughter).

1:22:36

JK:      Ahh!

1:22:36

JLK:    — of some of these events. And so, it’d be neat to hear her personal — .

1:22:38

JK:      Okay. Repeat the question once again.

1:22:40

JLK:    So, the relationship and the role you would take for the Korean commission to

America and Europe for the Republic of Korea in 1919 [cars driving by]. So, if he ever spoke about that or heard any stories since — ?

1:22:56

JK:      Okay. So…. Did they try to take the Korean Commission[8] to Europe?

1:23:02

DK:     Korean Commission?

1:23:04

JK:      Yes, yes

1:23:04

DK:     No. Korean Commission was located in Washington D.C.

1:23:06

JK:      I know it is Washington D.C., but…. What do you mean by Korean Commission

going to Europe?

1:23:12

JLK:    There looks like there’s some appointmentship for like a committee. It looks for

— as the commissioner finance through your grandfather for the bond raising in exile. And I’m wondering about just the...both political contributions?

1:23:31

JK:      Mmm.

1:23:32

JLK:    As of….

1:23:32

JK:      Maybe talking about their peace conference?

1:23:36

JLK:    So, that would be prior?

1:23:37

DK:     No, [the] peace conference he attended — .

1:23:38

JLK:    [That] would have been earlier? As in 1907, that was the peace conference.

1:23:45

DK:     Yeah. As — .

1:23:46

JLK:    In the Netherlands.

1:23:46

DK:     — their official translator.

1:23:48

JLK:    Yes!

1:23:48

DK:     For three Korean delegates sent by [the] Korean emperor.

1:23:53

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:23:54

JK:      That was Hague.[9]

1:23:55

DK:     Hague.

1:23:55

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:23:56

DK:     Yes.

1:23:56

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:23:56

JK:      Okay.

1:23:57

DK:     Hague.

1:23:57

JK:      Besides Hague, I am talking about the Paris Peace Conference.

 

1:24:03

DK:     That, I do not know.

1:24:05

SK:      About the Paris Peace Conference?

 

1:24:06

DK:     Yeah.

1:24:07

JK:      Yes.

1:24:07

SK:      My grandfather — .

1:24:08

JK:      But I think your question is something different. Right?

1:24:11

JLK:    [It’s] different, it is. So, more of...later — .

1:24:15

JK:      Hmm.

1:24:15

JLK:    — in the historical timeline of contributions. So….

1:24:19

JK:      Hmm.

1:24:19

JLK:    Just more on the theme of minister of finance and pursuing this governance?

So, what was — ?

1:24:28

JK:      You mean — ?

1:24:28

JLK:    — in stories (laughter)?

1:24:29

JK:      What year?

1:24:30

JLK:    So, this would have been...this particular commission organized in 1919. So, I

don’t know if that’s part of the family history?

1:24:37

JK:      1919. And this is — ?

1:24:41

JLK:    The commission to America.

1:24:44

JK:      The Korean commission — .

1:24:44

DK:     Korea1919, the — .

1:24:47

JK:      — based in Washington, D.C.

1:24:48

DK:     —  Korean commission in Washington, D.C. — .

1:24:50

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:24:51

JK:      Right.

1:24:51

DK:     — was established.

1:24:53

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:24:53

JK:      Right.

1:24:54

DK:     By three patriots.

1:24:56

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:24:56

JK:      Right. Rhee Syngman.

1:24:56

DK:     One was Dr. Syngman Rhee.[10]

1:24:58

JK:      Yes.

1:24:58

JLK:    Yes.

1:24:59

DK:     Doctor Kiusic Kimm

1:25:00

JLK:    Yes.

1:25:01

JK:      Yes.

1:25:01

DK:     My maternal grandfather, Hurn-joo Song.

1:25:04

JK:      Yes.

1:25:04

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:25:04

DK:     Yeah (ambulance).

1:25:06

JLK:    So, could we hear from you perhaps about that appointment ship? Is there any

family story or history that you were — that you were told about; or during your ninety day of stay with him, did he share about these commissioner moments?

1:25:23

DK:     Oh! I mean he spoke a lot of things.

1:25:25

JLK:    Uh-huh.

1:25:25

DK:     But as I say, he’s very...kind of reserved — .

1:25:28

JLK:    Okay.

1:25:29

DK:     — gentleman. And he never talked about somebody else.

1:25:33

JLK:    Okay.

1:25:34

DK:     Only one time I heard was that great independence movement by forming the

Korean commission was D.C. was kind of…. What’s the right word I mean? [It] was kind of...disturbed or what destroyed by one person’s…. Well, he kind of misused the financial — .

1:26:10

JK:      The funds.

1:26:13

JLK:    Hmm.

1:26:13

DK:     So, her grandfather and my maternal grandfather resigned — .

1:26:19

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:26:20

DK:     — from the appointment….

1:26:21

JLK:    Okay.

1:26:21

DK:      ...of the commission. So, three commissioners and the two resigned so the

organization just….

1:26:32

JLK:    Ceased to operate — .

1:26:35

JK:      (laughter).

1:26:35

DK:     Just….

1:26:35

JLK:     — with that leadership (laughter). Okay.

1:26:37

DK:     I mean, their name continued two [to] three years.

1:26:40

JLK:    Sure.

1:26:40

DK:     But they did not function.

1:26:42

JLK:    I see.

1:26:43

DK:     At all, I mean….

1:26:44

JLK:    Okay. Did he share about bond raising with you?

1:26:49

DK:     Yeah! I mean, that this bond — .

1:26:51

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:26:51

DK:     — that [was] commissioned was….

1:26:52

JLK:    Right.

1:26:53

DK:     You know, he issued a bond to raise the capital.

1:26:56

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:26:56

DK:     But the whole capital they raised originally was for the….

1:27:00

JLK:    Shanghai.

1:27:01

DK:     To use for the — .

1:27:03

JLK:    Provisional.

1:27:03

DK:     — independence movement.

1:27:04

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:27:05

DK:     But [immediately] after that, when the new provisional government was formed in

Shanghai, China….

1:27:13

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:27:14

DK:     ...the money [was] supposed to go to them.

1:27:16

JLK:    Right.

1:27:17

DK:     And it didn’t.

1:27:18

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:27:18

DK:     So, that’s the reason two gentlemen retired, I mean resigned.

1:27:24

JLK:    Okay. Another part of the culture and the relationship is his ongoing attendance

in local churches in the area as a regular member.

1:27:44

DK:     You know….

1:27:44

JLK:    Would you share about that?

1:27:45

DK:     My maternal grandfather, after Princeton he was trained at some Princeton

Seminary - I don’t remember the exact term for that institution. But he acted as a priest at the church in Honolulu — .

1:28:12

JLK:    Hmm.

1:28:12

DK:      — for three years. I know that.

1:28:17

JK:      Then he graduated from Princeton University seminary?

1:28:20

DK:     No. He finished his Princeton University Master’s program.

1:28:22

JK:      Mmm.

1:28:22

DK:     Right after - at the Seminary of Princeton, there is another program in which he took.

1:28:26

JK:      Mmm. Yes, yes.

1:28:27

DK:     There people can go.

1:28:29

JK:      Then after, he pursued seminary in Hawaii?

1:28:31

DK:     Mmm. Yes, yes.

1:28:34

JLK:    Hmm.

1:28:41

JK:      So now, was Mr. Kimm Kiusic also religious?

1:28:47

SK:      What was it again?

1:28:47

JK:      From being taken care of by Underwood, was he a churchgoer?

1:28:53

SK:      Yes.

1:28:54

JK:      I’m asking if Kimm Kiusic has attended church as well.

1:29:00

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:29:01

SK:      That is how he taught students at YMCA, Samoonan church, Kyungsin School. As I said earlier, during that time, Korea’s [literacy] rate was 80%.

1:29:17

JK:      Mmm.

1:29:18

SK:      So then, he believed in the importance of education. Popular places like

Japanese universities, American universities, and major corporations were trying to scout him, but he ignored its temptation and taught people at night schools.

1:29:42

JK:      So, Kimm Kiusic taught at YMCA.

1:29:46

JLK:    Mmm. Mhmm.

1:29:48

JK:      Samoonan Church, Kyeongsin school at the time Korea’s literacy was eighty

percent. He, Kimm Kiusic, always emphasized the importance of literacy and education.

1:30:03

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:30:04

JK:      So, even though he’s been offered many good business positions, etc, teaching

positions, professorship, etc, he always devoted himself to community services.

1:30:22

JLK:    Hmm.

1:30:22

JK:      Volunteer services. Teaching — .

1:30:25

JLK:    Teaching.

1:30:26

JK:      — people.

1:30:31

JLK:    Were there any other affiliations worth mentioning for the sake of this interview,

other memberships that he might have held politically or socially about — ? I’m wondering about his other potential affiliations?

1:30:49

JK:      Affiliations?

1:30:49

JLK:    Mhmm. And — ?

1:30:50

JK:      Like….

1:30:50

JLK:    — other...through universities…?

1:30:53

JK:      Are you...like a human [affiliation]?

1:30:56

JLK:    Right.

1:30:56

JK:      Human relations?

1:30:56

JLK:    Any other groups or networks that are noted? For instance, the Hungsadahn(Young Korean Academy, 흥사단) involvement in Los Angeles (laughter)? Maybe we can direct to Hungsadahn?

1:31:07

JK:      Mhmm. Besides everything you have shared with us, would there be any other

organizations, volunteer, community, or activity that he was engaged in? So like,

you know you shared a lot about Korean Commission.

1:31:30

DK:     Yes.

1:31:30

JK:      Was he also involved in other communities, for example, Korean Commission?

1:31:37

DK:     Yes. I can only talk about my mother’s side of grandfather.

1:31:48

JK:      Yes, yes.

1:31:52

DK:     Give me a second, while I look over this.

1:32:19

JK:      Then, since Dr. Kim is here.

1:32:22

SK:      My grandfather was involved in the education committee. As I told you earlier,

numerous corporations wanted to take him with them.

1:32:35

JK:      Mhmm.

1:32:36

SK:      He ignored these offers.

1:32:39

JK:      Mhmm.

1:32:40

SK:      And after our country became liberated, and my grandfather’s qualification was

beyond excellent during that time.

1:32:50

JK:      Mhmm.

1:32:50

SK:      If he remained in Korea, and remember during that time, there was an one

hundred and five-men incident.

1:32:55

JK:      One hundred and five-men incident was there.

1:32:57

SK:      That his safety was in danger.

1:32:58

JK:      Mhmm.

1:32:59

SK:      So then, when he was choosing his place for political asylum (망명지).

1:33:02

JK:      Hmm.

1:33:02

SK:      He did not choose an easy place like America.

1:33:07

JK:      Hmm.

1:33:08

SK:      He chose the tough path — .

1:33:11

JK:      Mhmm.

1:33:12

SK:      — by going to China saying he will have a ginseng business, to start a military

school in Mongolia.

1:33:25

JK:      Mhmm.

1:33:25

SK:      He was all prepared and was waiting for the funds, but it never arrived to him.

1:33:31

JK:      Mmm.

1:33:31

SK:      My grandfather started a project, but never got to finish. Also, he

not only fought for independence, but also taught English as an English scholar at Chinese universities. He attended meetings which involved the Paris Peace Conference. He did everything -- including diplomatic and scholarly work.

1:34:08

JK:      So, he — when Rhee Syngman and Song Hurn-joo stayed in the states — .

1:34:16

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:34:16

JK:      — after the breakup of the Korean commission.

1:34:20

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:34:22

JK:      He chose to go to China, which was a more difficult course for him. And he went

to Mongolia to...and tried to establish a military training school. It didn’t work out due to a lack of funds.

1:34:44

JLK:    Hmm.

1:34:46

JK:      And he...because he was truly, truly exceptional, [an] exceptionally talented

person, he was offered many lucrative positions. But he always wanted to work for Korean independence.

1:35:06

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:35:07

JK:      And education, etc...and so…. So, he had wide involvement in the field of

diplomacy.

1:35:19

JLK:    Hmm.

1:35:19

JK:      And as a scholar, he was an outstanding scholar as well. And so he taught

English Literature, for example in China, etc.

1:35:35

JLK:    Okay.

1:35:39

JK:      Dr. Kim, would you like to explain more?

1:35:42

DK:     I think I explained everything.

1:35:45

JK:      Yes.

1:35:46

DK:     But, the information that you are missing is from 1934.

1:35:48

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:35:51

DK:     He was appointed as a finance minister for [the] western part of North America.

1:35:59

JLK:    Hmm.

1:35:59

JK:      Hmm.

1:36:00

DK:     Representing [the] western part of North America.

1:36:02

JK:      Hmm.

1:36:02

DK:     It’s called the fourth district by the exiled government in Shanghai.

1:36:09

JK:      Hmm. The western states as in...in America?

1:36:13

DK:     Yes, yes.

1:36:14

JK:      Okay, okay.

1:36:14

DK:     Yeah.

1:36:15

JLK:    Okay.

1:36:16

DK:     It’s known as a fourth district.

1:36:19

JK:      Okay.

1:36:19

DK:     Yeah. And then during [the] 1930s, he made an effort to unify the independence

movement under very different — the groups. He was able to unify and make new Korean associations right what we see here. And the — .

1:36:48

JK:      So, you mean he started an organization like the Central Korean Commission?

1:36:51

DK:     Korean National Association (국민회)

1:36:52

JK:      Korean National Association (국민회), Headquarter (중앙총회)

1:36:52

DK:     Korean National Association (대한인국민회)

1:36:54

JK:      Hmm.

1:36:55

DK:     Korean National Association (총대한인국민회)

1:36:58

JK:      Headquarter (중앙총회)

1:36:59

DK:     Headquarter(중앙총회)

1:37:00

Mr. Kwon:      There are five local chapters under Korean National Association

Headquarters

1:37:03

DK:     Yes, he unified them all.

1:37:06

JK:      Mmm.

1:37:09

DK:     That….

1:37:12

JLK:    Hmm.

1:37:14

DK:     As a symbol of unification.

1:37:16

JK:      Mhmm.

1:37:16

DK:     He collected money.

1:37:19

JK:      Mhmm.

1:37:20

DK:     Built a building.

1:37:23

JK:      Ahh!

1:37:23

DK:     Is this the building?

1:37:24

JK:      Ahh!

1:37:25

DK:     Back in ’38.

1:37:26

JLK:    Hmm.

1:37:27

JK:      Uh-huh.

1:37:27

DK:     With that, he was elected as the chairperson three times to be the head of that

organization.

1:37:34

JK:      Oh!

1:37:34

DK:     But one of the three electoral votes

1:37:40

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:37:41

DK:     He voluntarily turned it over to Kim Ho.

1:37:43

JLK:    Mhmm.

 

1:37:45

JK:      Ahh!

1:37:45

DK:     Uh-huh.

1:37:45

JK:      Okay.

1:37:45

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:37:46

SK:      So, this building was built in 1938?

1:37:48

DK:     Yes.

1:37:49

SK:      Wow, it has been so long!

1:37:53

DK:     Yes. And he also [was] a — one of the [people] responsible to create the

California Tiger unit.

1:38:10

JK:      Tiger Unit.[11]

1:38:11

JLK:    Military.

1:38:11

DK:     Yeah. Tiger Unit.

1:38:13

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:38:14

DK:     ...belonged to the National Army Guard.

1:38:15

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:38:15

JK:      Uh-huh.

1:38:16

DK:     And he served as a diplomatic...head of the diplomatic division.

1:38:21

JK:      Uh-huh.

1:38:21

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:38:22

DK:     And….

1:38:29

JLK:    Mr. Kim, would you discuss more about the Korean National Association and us

meeting here, about the heritage...?

1:38:37

DK:  Well…..

1:38:38

JLK:    ...for you (laughter)?

1:38:38

DK:     I do not know too much.

1:38:41

JLK:    Okay.

1:38:41

DK:     All I know is what he has done.

1:38:44

JLK:    Uh-huh.

1:38:44

DK:     Yeah. I know because when he arrived, he took me down here a couple of

times. They were trying to conduct the meeting. And so many hundreds of Koreans got to get together. There’s no place to meet.

1:38:58

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:38:59

DK:     So, they needed a place. And also to create a symbol of unification. Before then,

they had so many different factions.

1:39:12

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:39:12

DK:     But, after all the group unified, made one organization, and this was it. Yeah,

he was elected three times…..

1:39:25

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:39:25

DK:     But as I said, two times he carried out. But one time he turned it over to — .

1:39:31

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:39:32

DK:     — Mr. Kim Ho. Yeah.

1:39:35

Mr. Kwon[12]:   In the year of 1941, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Mr. Song Hurn-joo oversaw and was in charge of Tiger unit Brigade when it was at the national level. They fought with American military and created a military group to fight along with America for helping Korea in the past

1:40:09

JK:      So, he — Mr. Song Hurn-joo was in charge of creating this Tiger Unit.[13]

1:40:17

JLK:    Okay.

1:40:18

JK:      So, the national guard to defend the US.

1:40:24

DK:     And then, 1945 when he, they had the United Nations conference in San

Francisco.[14]

1:40:31

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:40:32

DK:     He was...represented Korea as a delegate with Syng-man Rhee. And both gentlemen [were] appointed by [the] government in Shanghai.

1:40:43

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:40:44

DK:     Yeah.

1:40:46

JLK:    How has your grandfather’s military heritage affected yours?

1:40:50

DK:     Oh, no nothing to it. He’s not a military man, at all.

1:40:53

JLK:    Even with the National Guard unit? I’m just — .

1:40:56

DK:     No, I mean….

1:40:56

JLK:     — seeing through that perceptive.

1:40:57

DK:     You know, I think that he is one of the country builders to organize.

1:41:04

JLK:    Organize, not serve — .

1:41:05

DK:     Yeah, not….

1:41:05

JK:      Organize.

1:41:05

JLK:    — directly in that — .

1:41:06

DK:     Yeah.

1:41:06

JLK:    — troop itself.

1:41:06

JK:      Mhmm.

1:41:07

JLK:    Okay.

1:41:07

DK:     He’s not [a] military man, no.

1:41:08

JLK:    I see.

1:41:09

DK:     No.

1:41:09

JLK:   Okay. So, [it] wasn’t a direct…. Okay.

1:41:13

DK:     Yeah.

1:41:13

JLK:   Just through the organization. Right. Okay.

1:41:18

Mr. Kwon:      What you were just sharing is a very important information. In 1945, in San Francisco when UN conference was happening.

1:41:26

JLK:   Mhmm.

1:41:26

Mr. Kwon:      As the representative of Korean Provisional Government, Rhee Syngman and Song Hurn-joo attended the meeting — was a significant.

1:41:38

JK:      So, Mr. Kwon thinks it’s — .

1:41:40

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:41:40

JK:      — significant to note that Song Hurn-joo and Rhee Syng-man were representing

the Korean Provisional government — .

1:41:49

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:41:50

JK:      — to the UN Conference in San Francisco in 1945.

1:41:54

JLK:    ’45.

1:41:57

DK:     They both had a very respectable relationship, even though he shared the

difference in political philosophy.

1:42:04

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:42:05

DK:     Yeah.

1:42:08

JLK:    How did your grandfather convey that political difference to you personally?

1:42:13

DK:     Well, you know, to tell you the truth, I did not really master his philosophy. I never

had the chance to learn except he devoted [his whole] lifetime for the — .

1:42:28

JLK:    Movement.

1:42:28

DK:     — country.

1:42:29

JLK:    Right. Hmm.

1:42:31

DK:     So, I cannot answer your question. I’m sorry.

1:42:33

JLK:    Okay. Sure.

1:42:34

JK:      So, then, I’ll ask the same question — .

1:42:36

JLK:    Okay. Great!

1:42:37

JK:      — for Dr. Kim. There were a lot of political disagreements between Mr. Kimm

Kiusic and Rhee Syngman according to you. What did he tell your family about the situation?

1:42:58

SK:      I’m sure he shared that with the family, but since I was young during that time, I

do not know any details.

1:43:06

JK:      Mmm. Is there anything you heard from your mother?

1:43:06

SK:      I believe every little detail they discuss did not align together because — .

1:43:21

JK:      Mhmm.

1:43:22

SK:      — I heard that Korean immigrants were having a tough time living in America.

1:43:29

JK:      Mhmm.

1:43:29

SK:      Even during that time, they were saving $10 and $100 for the independence

movements.

1:43:37

JK:      Mhmm.

1:43:37

SK:      After collecting, my grandfather was trying to send everything to the Korean

Provisional Government in Shanghai.

1:43:41

JK:      Mhmm.

1:43:42

SK:      And Dr. Rhee Syngman was trying to stop them.

1:43:47

JK:      Mmm.

1:43:48

SK:      To use the fund in America instead.

1:43:50

JK:      For his own political agenda.

1:43:51

SK:      Yes.

1:43:54

JK:      Mmm.

1:43:54

SK:      I heard that conflict was huge during that time. I also heard the expression that

Rhee Syngman was “shaking the tree” while my grandfather being up there.Even when he attended the Paris Peace Conference, he did not think that what he said was not impactful. But when he was told to do something, he knew that it was not for him, but to use it against him. I think that even their personalities were not compatible.

1:44:53

JK:      Since [he] was very young, [he] never actually heard anything from [his]

grandfather directly. But [he] read about him and — .So….

1:45:06

JLK:    Hmm.

1:45:07

JK:      He just disagreed [about] many things with Rhee Syngman. But his goal was to

serve the country. So, even though he knew that things that he’s asked to do was not necessarily good for himself, he was willing to do it. And he was willing to put himself — .

1:45:37

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:45:37

JK:      — in a vulnerable position.

1:45:41

JLK:    Hmm.

1:45:42

Mr. Kwon:      If I can add more, due to political problems, President Rhee Syngman’s

Organization, Dongji-hoe (동지회) and Korean National Association(대한국민회), the one with Ahn Changho were both mainly centered around Korean citizens. But people in Dongji-hoe(동지회) began taking advantage of their support that they started being negative.

1:46:15

SK:     Although, I do not know much, last year, have you heard of John Birch (버치 중위)?” He was a person from the liberation time period, who I can describe as a “contact” between the U.S. Army and Korea’s political leaders, managing the political punishment. When he returned back to his country in his 60s, he wrote a book similar to a memoir. It was published and presented at Seoul National University to Professor Park Taekyun. June 25(6/25) happened in 1950 and the book collected data such as: December of 1947 how North Korea was preparing for a war attack.

 

He went back to America in 1948 and wrote a book including the statement that Korea’s most stable and innocent politicians were Kimm Kiusic and Cho Man-sik. Originally, the U.S. MIlitary government supported my grandfather to be the presidential candidate. But he refused to become a leader of a “half country.” So he gave up and pushed for the North and South Korea summit.

 

On the other hand, U.S. pushed for trusteeship and supported Dr. Rhee Syngman’s side. According to the Birch documents, MacArthur made a misjudgement about Dr. Rhee Syngman’s administration. MacArthur was in Japan during that time and was not fully aware of Korea’s situation with Rhee Syngman’s leadership.

1:49:11

JK:      So, she’s talking about the Birch Report, was [the] communication person.

1:49:18

JLK:    Mmm.

1:49:18

JK:      Go between person between the occupied forces and the Korean government.

1:49:27

JLK:    Hmm.

1:49:28

JK:      So, according to that, the occupied forces, the U.S. occupied forces after the

Korean liberation actually wanted to appoint Kimm Kiusic to lead the Korean government. But Kimm Kiusic didn’t want to go with it because he wanted an unified government. But the U.S. just wanted the South half. So, general MacArthur then instead appointed and supported Rhee Syngman.

1:50:13

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:50:14

JK:      But according to the Birch Report[15] — .

1:50:16

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:50:17

JK:      — that was MacArthur’s personal misjudgment.

1:50:23

JLK:    I see. Hmm. Maybe we can discuss more about the legacy of that movement

personally?

1:50:33

JK:      Being a descendant of an ancestor who was well known, did you receive any inheritance from them?

1:50:39

JLK:    Hmm.

1:50:40

JK:      Some sort of provision from them?

1:50:48

SK:      Something I received?

1:50:50

JK:      As a descendant, was there any influence from them growing up?

1:51:04

SK:      Hmm, growing up, honestly speaking - I kept it a secret.

1:51:11

JK:      Why?

1:51:13

SK:      Because, I did not want to talk about how my grandpa and a few of his

compatriots were spies for the North, while I was in college - so, my friends did not know Kimm Kiusic was my grandfather

1:51:22

JK:      So, when I was growing up, I actually wanted to hide that Kimm Kiusic is my

grandfather. It’s because he went to the North in August.

1:51:35

SK:      There were only a few people who knew about my grandfather during my middle

and high school years even though my grandmother was the school principal. While I attended college, none of my classmates knew as well. Recently, I did a performance that took place on April 11th.[16] During the performance, I held a Korean flag. I was interviewed for a documentary about my grandfather. People approach me and ask why I’m speaking about my grandfather now since I’ve stayed quiet for so long.

1:52:15

JK:      So, in those days, not too many people really knew or cared about Kimm Kiusic

because he was suppressed.

1:52:24

JLK:    Hmm.

1:52:24

JK:      But, nowadays, now she’s more open about her relation to Kimm Kiusic.

1:52:36

JLK:    Hmm.

1:52:36

JK:      And so, she now goes to public places when, you know, and [does] some official

assignments — .

1:52:44

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:52:44

JK:      — to...as his descendant.

1:52:47

JLK:    Hmm.

1:52:47

JK:      And so, people are surprised, “How come you never told me — ?”

1:52:51

JLK:    No (laughter).

1:52:52

JK:      “ — that your grandfather is such a famous person?”

1:52:55

JLK:    Wow.

1:52:56

SK:     But now, compared to his legacy for the Korean history, not many people know about him unlike Kim Gu.

1:53:03

JK:      I’m actually rather sad that not too many people know about my father’s

accomplishments.

1:53:12

JLK:    Hmm.

1:53:12

JK:      Contributions. And they mostly, talk, about Kim Gu and Gyeong-gyo-Jang

(경교장).

1:53:18

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:53:18

JK:      But not Kimm Kiusic.

1:53:19

SK:      Kim Gu.

1:53:20

JLK:    Hmm.

1:53:20

SK:      l do not know if you guys have ever been to, but he has a huge memorial hall.

1:53:24

JK:      So, Kim Gu has a grand memorial hall.

1:53:28

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:53:28

SK:      We do not even have a room, nothing.

1:53:31

JK:      Kimm Kiusic has no...nothing.

1:53:33

JLK:    Hmm.

1:53:34

SK:     For example, most people only talk about Kim Gu’s work, but it was my grandfather, who thoroughly prepared and processed everything for the peace summit between the North and South Korea.

1:53:51

JK:      A whole lot of her father’s contributions and legacy actually are accredited to

somebody else like Kim Gu.

1:54:01

JLK:    Hmm.

1:54:01

JK:      And she’s sad about that.

1:54:02

JLK:    Hmm.

1:54:03

SK:       [Siren] So, while I share awareness of my grandfather’s legacy, as I mentioned

earlier, the three historical sites, Gyeong-gyo-jang, the house Kim Gu lived, Rhee Syngman’s I-hwa-jang, Kimm Kiusic’s Sam-cheong-jang. Out of three, two were recognized as historical buildings.

1:54:35

JK:      So, the three historic sites — .

1:54:38

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:54:38

JK:      — lived by three famous men. Gyeong-gyo-jang was Kim Gu’s [resident].

1:54:44

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:54:44

JK:      Sam-cheong-jang, Kimm Kiusic’s [resident]. And I-hwa-jang was Rhee

Syngman’s [resident]. Now the two, the other two historic sites….

1:54:56

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:54:57

JK:      But not Sam Cheong-jang. Yet her mission as the head of — .

1:55:02

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:55:02

JK:      — the memorial foundation.

1:55:05

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:55:06

JK:      Wants to make — .

1:55:06

SK:      So that….

1:55:07

JK:      Make that happen.

1:55:08

SK:      I have submitted a petition, and I am urging a protest to retrieve it back.

1:55:12

JK:      So, she’s writing letters and….

1:55:14

JLK:    Okay.

1:55:14

SK:      To be recognized as a historical site (laughter).

1:55:16

JLK:    Huh.

1:55:16

JK:      To designate it as a memorial.

1:55:20

JLK:    Okay.

1:55:20

JK:      Kimm Kiusic….

1:55:21

SK:      This should not be….

1:55:22

JK:      Site….

1:55:23

SK:      Descendant’s job to make it as a recognized historical site.

1:55:28

JK:      This actually should not depend on the family members [siren].

1:55:33

JLK:    Hmm.

1:55:34

JK:      So, it really should be a — .

1:55:35

JLK:    Government.

1:55:36

JK:      — government — .

1:55:36

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:55:36

JK:      — level.

1:55:37

JLK:    Sure [siren]. What kind of response have you received with these petitions to recognize this site?

1:55:46

JK:      With your effort, so far, what responses have you heard back so far?

1:55:54

SK:      So far, I submitted the petition form. I sent it to the Ministry of Unification and the

Blue House

1:56:03

JK:      So, she’s….

1:56:04

SK:      But they responded to me that the place is used for the Presidential Security

Service

1:56:05

JK:      Huh?

1:56:06

SK:      Security Service Department. Presidential Security Service Department

1:56:08

JK:      Ahh!

1:56:09

SK:      But the president --

1:56:09

JK:      You are saying the Security Service Department is using the building?

1:56:12

SK:      Yes.

1:56:13

JK:      Ahh!

1:56:13

SK:      While they have been using the building, the facility got destroyed a lot.

1:56:16

JK:      Ahh!

1:56:17

SK:      They should restore the facility, but I do not understand why they use it without

returning it back.

1:56:25

JK:      Ahh!

1:56:25

SK:      That is what I mean. According to cultural heritage administration, they will

examine the facility.

1:56:31

JK:      Okay. So, she….

1:56:31

SK:      The one I sent to prime minister, it went over to the cultural heritage

administration.

1:56:35

JK:      Okay. So, she wrote letters to different departments [that] she went. She wrote

one to the Blue House and…. Anyway, like cultural preservation bureau.

1:56:51

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:56:51

JK:      And, you know, etcetera.

 

1:56:53

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:56:53

JK:      So, currently, under review, currently Samchung-jang building is used by the presidential security team.

1:57:07

JLK:    Okay.

1:57:14

JK:      Mr. Kim. Please share your story.

1:57:16

DK:     For me, I do not have much to say. Song Hurn-joo is a man who devoted his

whole life for the independence movement.

1:57:37

JK:      Why don’t you share your story in English?

1:57:39

DK:     What?

1:57:39

JK:      What do you think about speaking English?

1:57:41

SK:      If he speaks Korean.

1:57:41

DK:     Yeah.

1:57:42

SK:       It is good that I can understand, too

1:57:43

JK:      Ahh! You are right (laughter).

1:57:43

DK:     (laughter).

1:57:46

JK:      Okay. He devoted his life to the Independence movement.

1:57:50

DK:     Yes.

1:57:51

JK:      Mhmm.

1:57:51

DK:     And then…. No, economic benefit at all. He was a very poor man at the time he

passed away. But what he tried to achieve during his lifetime was very

respectable.

1:58:11

JK:      Mhmm.

1:58:12

DK:     Yeah. But we as a person — .

1:58:20

JK:      Mhmm.

1:58:21

DK:     I respect his achievement. But as a person, I don’t think I’ll repeat his paths if I were given the same opportunity myself (laughter). This is my frank opinion.

1:58:36

JK:      Because it’s just too….

1:58:38

DK:     Well, you know, it does so much hardship to the remaining families. I mean….

1:58:44

JK:      So, he sacrificed.

1:58:45

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:58:45

DK:     Yeah.

1:58:46

JK:      Not only himself, but the family.

1:58:46

DK:     I mean, he left my mother when she was only a year and a half old.

1:58:50

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:58:50

DK:     I mean….

1:58:51

JK:      Right.

1:58:51

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:58:52

DK:     You know, it is kind of [a] sad story.

1:58:54

JLK:    Mhmm.

1:58:55

DK:     Yeah.

1:58:56

JK:      Okay.

1:58:58

JLK:    With honoring the hundredth anniversary and the event tomorrow, what do you feel in reference to this momentum event?

1:59:10

DK:     Well, I think it is very important to re-educate to the younger generation about

what our ancestors did. I think there’s a certain value.

1:59:31

JK:      For celebrating centennial year, how do you feel?

1:59:37

SK:      Hmm?

1:59:38

JK:      How do you feel, for the centennial year?

1:59:39

SK:      Centennial year.

1:59:40

JK:      For the Provisional Government of Korea and the Independence, March first

movement.

1:59:45

SK:      Centennial year for the Provisional Government of Korea and 3/1 independence

movement is highly relevant to my grandfather.

1:59:53

JK:      Yes.

1:59:54

SK:      The opportunity to start a 3/1 movement was

2:00:00

JK:      Mhmm.

2:00:00

SK:      When my grandfather was leaving to Paris

2:00:06

JK:      Mhmm.

 

2:00:06

SK:      Our country, during that time, was as tiny as a grain of rice on the map.

2:00:11

JK:      Mhmm.

2:00:11

SK:      And nobody knew about our country [car driving by]. _________. He said what

would be a point of talking about Korea when no one listens to me. But,

_____________ although it would take a couple of days. So __________ [car

driving by], ____________, my grandfather went to Paris after taking 42 days leaving from Shanghai, China. During that time, Lyuh Woon-hyung sent two to three pairs of secret envoy to Manchuria, Mongolia, Japan, Korea, and my grandfather completed his work in Paris. From that, 2/8 Independence Movement began first then 3/1 movement and continuously happened for two months everywhere. My grandfather, during that time, established ________ and experienced the Japanese military’s brutality. He could not attend the movement, although he knew it was hitting a rock with an egg. He believed that the movement was something that he must do. And.. what was it? Before he left, he had pent-up anger for __________ only taking care of their own country, not keeping the promise. That document was recently found a few months ago.

2:02:05

JK:      Where did the documents come out?

2:02:08

SK:      What are you talking about?

2:02:08

JK:      The documents. That was found a few months ago.

2:02:11

SK:      Ahh! The one that was found a couple months ago was in France.

2:02:14

JK:      Ahh! France.

2:02:15

SK:      With professors and Korean scholars, from thirty-five to forty people.

2:02:26

JK:      Mhmm.

2:02:27

SK:      They made a group.

2:02:29

JK:      Mmm.

2:02:30

SK:      Korean scholars, since their French is not fluent, could not excavate them.

2:02:34

JK:      Mmm.

2:02:35

SK:      Many people did not know how important that document was.

2:02:38

JK:      Mmm.

2:02:39

SK:      So, they work collaboratively. A person named Lee Jang-kyu excavate a lot of

documents.

2:02:46

JK:      Mhmm.

2:02:46

SK:      About my grandfather. I met up with him last month.

2:02:52

JK:      Mhmm.

2:02:52

SK:      There are a few documents at a huge reference room in ANOM

(프랑스해외영토자료관), but he found the documents at a small Paris reference room

2:03:04

JK:      Mhmm.

2:03:04

SK:      So then, ___________, formally established books came out up to 23 so far.

2:03:12

JK:      Mhmm.

2:03:13

SK:      Ten books were missing, but they recently found them all.

 

2:03:27

JK:      Mhmm.

 

2:03:28

SK:      During that time, Ho Chi Minh was an international student. During that time, Ho

Chi Minh was [a] French colony, but they were not thinking about the

independence movement. After he met my grandfather and other activists, he

changed his mind to fighting for liberation.

2:03:52

JK:      Mhmm.

2:03:53

SK:      Told by a detective who followed him around according to the document.

2:03:56

JK:      Okay. So, she’s talking about the documents that — .

2:04:01

JLK:    Mhmm.

2:04:02

JK:      — that was just recently discovered.

2:04:05

JLK:    Mhmm.

2:04:05

JK:      In France.

2:04:06

JLK:    Mhmm.

 

2:04:07

SK:      Is the time over?

2:04:08

JK:      Her grandfather’s writings — .

2:04:10

JLK:    Mhmm.

2:04:11

JK:      — when he went to Paris — .

2:04:12

JLK:    Mmm.

2:04:13

JK:      — for the peace conference.

2:04:15

JLK:    Okay.

2:04:17

JK:      And so, about a group of forty scholars, you know, combination of French and Korean — .

2:04:24

JLK:    Yes.

2:04:24

JK:      — scholars are now analyzing the documents.

2:04:29

JLK:    That's wonderful. Okay.

2:04:35

JK:      So, what...do we have to wrap up by…?

2:04:37

JLK:    I think this is…. Yes, so it’s 5:08 p.m. right now, so (laughter).

2:04:41

JK:      5:08 p.m.?

2:04:42

JLK:    Yes.

2:04:42

JK:      Okay (laughter).

2:04:43

JLK:    Any...should we ask just a final question of — ?

2:04:48

JK:      Do you have any last words?

2:04:49

JLK:    — your own legacy, maybe of your...how you want the future to go (laughter)?

And just any last comments?

2:04:57

DK:     I really appreciate [having] this opportunity. I really thank you.

 

2:05:02

JK:      Hmm.

2:05:03

JLK:    Thank you for participating. We’re grateful — .

2:05:05

SK:      For me….

2:05:05

JLK:    — for your time.

2:05:06

JK:      Your last words please.

2:05:08

SK:     I believe our country is the only country who treats independence activists in this way. I wish they remember correct history and respectfully treat these activists

better than before.

2:05:28

JK:      So, she wishes that...somehow the Korean government is not appreciating — .

2:05:35

JLK:    Hmm.

2:05:36

JK:      — or giving due respect to the...these patriots who sacrifice not only themselves — .

 

2:05:48

JLK:    Mhmm.

2:05:48

JK:      — but their family to the cause of the Korean independence.

2:05:52

JLK:    Hmm.

2:05:53

JK:      So, she wishes that it — .

2:05:55

JLK:    Okay.

2:05:55

JK:      — would change.

2:05:57

JLK:    Hmm.

2:05:58

SK:      Among the descendants of Korean independence, I luckily received education,

when many of them missed out on opportunities to learn.

2:06:07

JK:      So, many descendants — .

2:06:10

JLK:    Yes.

2:06:11

JK:      — really didn’t have due opportunities for education etc. While their ancestors

were devoting self to the causes — .

2:06:24

JLK:    Hmm.

2:06:25

JK:      — of national — .

2:06:26

SK:      So, during independence movement —

2:06:26

JK:       — independence. So, she was fortunate to have education.

2:06:31

JLK:    Mhmm.

2:06:31

JK:      And become economically, financially independent. But many others are not as

fortunate as she is.

2:06:38

JLK:    Mmm.

2:06:39

JK:      And she wishes that the government would support these families that….

2:06:44

JLK:    Hmm.

2:06:46

SK:      They could not take care of their own children due to the independence

movement.

2:06:49

JK:      Yes.

2:06:50

SK:      They go towards that way. And Pro-Japanese Koreans who betrayed their

country became more successful in having lots of power and money.

2:06:55

JK:      Yes.

2:06:56

SK:      Newspaper company, college professors. So this is just too — .

2:07:02

JK:      So, there is a big difference between how the pro-Chinese, no pro-Japanese

people…. [It] turned out they end up having important positions.

2:07:16

JLK:    Hmm.

2:07:18

JK:      While the descendants of activists — .

2:07:24

JLK:    Not.

2:07:24

JK:       — didn’t have that — .

2:07:25

JLK:    Yes.

2:07:25

JK:      — good opportunity.

2:07:26

SK:      Thank you!

2:07:27

JLK:    Thank you! Thank you very much (laughter)!

2:07:29

DK:     Thank you very much! Thank you!

[1] His name is also spelled Kim Kyu-Sik, Kimm Giusic, and Kimm Kiusic (Korean:김규식, Hanja:金奎植) He was born January 29, 1881 and passed away December 10, 1950.

[2] The Republic of Korea Army (ROKA; Korean: 대한민국 육군; Hanja: 大韓民國 陸軍; Revised Romanization: Daehanminguk Yuk-gun), also known as the ROK Army, is the army of South Korea, responsible for ground-based warfare.

[3] February 8: Declaration of Independence

[4] Kim Il-sung (김일성) was the first leader of North Korea. He ruled from the country's establishment in 1948 until his death in 1994.

[5] Yo Un-hyung(Lyuh Woon-hyung) or his pen-name was Mongyang (몽양; 夢陽).

[6] In 1910, Song Hurn Joo returned to Roanoke College in Virginia and received his BA degree.  Immediately upon graduation, he was accepted into Princeton University in 1914, where he obtained a master’s degree in History and Politics.

[7]           The third person that originally joined this mission was named Yi Sang-seol in the diplomatic envoy.

[8] https://koreanpioneers.omeka.net/items/show/5

[9] A city in the Netherlands.

[10] Syngman Rhee (Korean: 이승만) was the first president of the Republic of Korea from 1948 to 1960.

[11] https://koreanpioneers.omeka.net/items/show/11

[12] Chairman of the Korean National Association (kook-min-hoe) in Los Angeles.

[13] 1941 Korean National Defense Guard, Tiger Army Troop.

[14] Korean Delegation United Nations Conference, San Francisco, Calif., May 22, 1945

[15] This is the John Birch report.

[16] The Korean provisional government was established on April 11, 1919.

Interviewer

Jennifer Keil
Joy Kim

Interviewee

Dr. Soook Kim
Mr. Dong Kim

Location

Korean National Association (KNA)

Citation

“Dr. Soook Kim and Mr. Dong Kim Dual Interview,” The Legacy of Korean Independence Pioneer Descendants, accessed March 29, 2024, https://koreanpioneers.omeka.net/items/show/14.